What's up with Kyrie Irving and Flat Earth?

[Caleb]

On lunch break....but wanted to chime in quickly on this....

So in regards to your initial post concerning Kyrie Irving, in September, he told a Boston radio host he was just kidding about being a flat Earther. He just wanted to have an “open conversation” and prove a point: “If I believe that the world is flat, and you believe that the world is round, does that knock my intellectual capacity, or the fact that I can think different things than you can?”

As best as I can tell, and I have searched quite a bit for a legitimate sound bite or quote from Kyrie on this....he has NEVER recanted his original assertion that he believes the earth is flat...and as the recent youtube clip suggests...he's NOT joking. Now, the way he has approached the topic with media, on podcasts and in interviews, I can definitely see him being careful how he discusses his views, because he knows his audience.

https://youtu.be/pfXHsuaAWeE
All that said, I only titled this thread the way I did because of how popular Kyrie is. Plus, in addition to his candor as he talks about his beliefs, I have utmost respect for the brother's incredible hoop skills.

[The Light Within]

A friend of mine just sent this to me. Now I'm the kind of guy who will take a good look at anything and see if it makes sense. So, this seems plausible...

I tend to think that belief in conspiracy theories, like flat earthism, help some people to feel relevant in an increasingly complex and hard-to-understand world. In the almost every field of learning, and especially in the sciences, it take years of dedication and learning before you even have a hope of contributing to your field of study. It often takes a degree in a subject just to understand what the experts are talking about — i.e. you are one of a select few who do.

Conspiracy theories, on the other hand, can be understood by anyone, but they are only believed by a relatively small community of people ranged against the massive edifice of the scientific establishment or the globalists, the New World Order, etc. — the powers that be.

So conspiracy theorists believe they know better — they have some special knowledge that the "sheeple" around them can’t see, or refuse to see, and it makes them feel special, superior, in the way they imagine those so-called real experts must feel when they talk in esoteric terms about subjects the common folk can barely understand, but without having to go through years of hard work to get there.

It’s also how conspiracy theorists bring order to chaos — they believe that the chaos and random events in this world are just made to look that way by a controlling globalist elite, and are really part of a meticulous long term plan to enslave the human race (after killing off most of us). Again, figuring this out makes them feel superior to those around them who are still blind to the facts they see clearly.

Of course, in turn, if we’re brutally honest, those of us who engage with the conspiracy theorists are typically doing it because it makes us feel superior to them, since we’re not dumb enough to fall for their nonsense. But that’s okay… isn’t it?

[Caleb]

Free e-book can be downloaded for the next couple days.

https://m.facebook.com/FlatEarthDoctrine/posts/333187910422357

Light, you’ve said repeatedly “the Bible does not teach a flat earth”.....

While I consider this little book just a primer, brother Nathan brings a lot of Scripture to bear on the topic.

I’d be interested to discuss some of it with you, if you have the time and interest.

Love you brother!

[The Light Within]

Free e-book can be downloaded for the next couple days.

https://m.facebook.com/FlatEarthDoctrine/posts/333187910422357

Light, you’ve said repeatedly “the Bible does not teach a flat earth”.....

While I consider this little book just a primer, brother Nathan brings a lot of Scripture to bear on the topic.

I’d be interested to discuss some of it with you, if you have the time and interest.

Love you brother!

Caleb, I went to that link you provided. It seems this whole flat earth doctrine is really giving Christians a bad name. Not that we don't already face persecution for bearing the name of Jesus, but this is giving people an even greater reason not to trust or believe what Christians say.

[Caleb]

I know brother, it’s quite intense and seems to be getting even more so as time passes and the word spreads. I have no interest in being divisive just for the sake of drama. My interest is knowing Christ and if the Bible can be trusted on matters of cosmology where I perceive it teaches different realities than modern (even 500 year old) “science”.

A lot of the push back in evangelical circles is on “interpretation”, or saying certain passages cannot be taken literal..etc.

While it would be much easier to just say “ok, forget the whole flat earth thing”, because Lord knows it’s not popular, I simply cannot yet. I am compelled thus far that the Bible definititively states a different reality, one that aligns with my observable senses much better than what I’ve been taught my whole life.

So, as I see it, there are only a few possibilities.

1. The Bible is silent on the shape and movement of the earth.
2. The Bible supports the heliocentric model.
3. The Bible supports a geocentric model, and modern “science” is deceptive in major areas (this is where I’m at right now). In this one, I believe MANY (if not most) well-intentioned people (Christians and others) are simply unaware that a conversation is even going on about these matters, and are not intentionally deceiving anyone.

Am I missing an option?

Light, visiting a Facebook page is a lot less informative than reading a book. Don’t give up that easy bro. Unless you are truly flat out sick of this convo and topic, because if that’s the case, I understand. (Pun intended, tee-hee)

[The Light Within]

I am compelled thus far that the Bible definititively states a different reality, one that aligns with my observable senses much better than what I’ve been taught my whole life.

But our observable senses can't fully be replied upon. After all, Jesus said to Thomas blessed are those who haven't seen and believed. We can't see or feel the air yet we know it's there. We as believers also walk by faith rather than by sight. So are you sure you can fully trust your senses? Our senses have been known to be notoriously unreliable.

[Caleb]

My dear, dear Light! Love you man! Thanks for the post! My reliance is on God’s Word (by faith), not firstly my senses. But like I said, my senses do align much better with what I believe the Bible teaches, which is that the earth is firmly fixed and shall not move. I also see the sun move overhead, which also aligns with the Bible’s teaching that the sun is on its circuit and that the sun rises and sets. The whole “flat” aspect of the discussion is more of a rejection of a spherical spinning ball than anything, because of course there are mountains and valleys. Although I’ve read that researchers have taken measurements across the state of Kansas and it’s literally “flat as a pancake”.

[The Light Within]

My dear, dear Light! Love you man! Thanks for the post! My reliance is on God’s Word (by faith), not firstly my senses. But like I said, my senses do align much better with what I believe the Bible teaches, which is that the earth is firmly fixed and shall not move. I also see the sun move overhead, which also aligns with the Bible’s teaching that the sun is on its circuit and that the sun rises and sets. The whole “flat” aspect of the discussion is more of a rejection of a spherical spinning ball than anything, because of course there are mountains and valleys. Although I’ve read that researchers have taken measurements across the state of Kansas and it’s literally “flat as a pancake”.

My dear dear Caleb, Kansas didn't even crack the top five U.S. states for flatness. By any measure, Florida takes the prize for the flattest state in the nation because the highest point in the state is only 345 feet above sea level. Then Illinois, North Dakota, Louisiana, Minnesota and Delaware follow.

So when are you signing up for a job at NASA? I'd love for you to tour me around, but we can't go too far...okay.

[Caleb]

Light, sometimes I sense you are being serious with genuine interest on these matters, other times I sense you are mocking, still other times I sense you are tired of the conversation and would prefer it would just die (which is probably the most confusing, because you keep posting on it).

Whatever the case, I do love you brother and remain thankful for our friendship here and “offline”, which is still technically “online”, just not on HCR. Your faith encourages me brother! What a world we live in!

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!!

[The Light Within]

Light, sometimes I sense you are being serious with genuine interest on these matters, other times I sense you are mocking, still other times I sense you are tired of the conversation and would prefer it would just die (which is probably the most confusing, because you keep posting on it).

Well, you are partially right in all areas. My last post however was just a little more light heat hearted messing around. It would be great to have a tour of the cosmos though.

Do you believe anything is orbiting the earth as we speak?

Whatever the case, I do love you brother and remain thankful for our friendship here and “offline”, which is still technically “online”, just not on HCR. Your faith encourages me brother! What a world we live in!

[Caleb]

Good question about anything orbiting the earth bro.

With these types of things, since there is so little I can personally prove (or observe), I do not have many answers (just opinions).

That said:

1. I have seen tiny, fast moving objects of light far up in the sky on many occasions. What are they? I can’t say for sure, but suspect some of them were airplanes.
2. Based on the Scriptures, and my personal observations, I do not believe that the earth is a spinning ball in space, so therefore it stands to reason that I do not believe there are objects “orbiting” in space around a “globe”.

What do you think?

[The Light Within]

Good question about anything orbiting the earth bro.

With these types of things, since there is so little I can personally prove (or observe), I do not have many answers (just opinions).

That said:

1. I have seen tiny, fast moving objects of light far up in the sky on many occasions. What are they? I can’t say for sure, but suspect some of them were airplanes.
2. Based on the Scriptures, and my personal observations, I do not believe that the earth is a spinning ball in space, so therefore it stands to reason that I do not believe there are objects “orbiting” in space around a “globe”.

What do you think?

There are an estimated 500,000 or so smaller orbital debris (between one and 10 centimeters in diameter) and about 21,000 larger bits (larger than 10 centimeters) spinning around Earth right now, according to NASA's Orbital Debris Program Office. You can actually see all but the smallest bits moving around us right now here: ||| http://stuffin.space ||| It tracks the paths of hundreds of thousands of orbital objects in realtime.

Just because I haven't seen Jesus by my own personal observations doesn't make Him any less real. Have I seen any of this up close myself, no, but I don't have any reason to believe it isn't there.

[caleb4life]

https://youtu.be/jXz87GCRBmo

Any of ya’ll heard of this GMC brother?

This song is BANGIN!!!

I listened to the whole album on amazon prime and am LOVING it!!

Even has Hazakim up on there!!

I tried to find out how to contact this GMC brother, but so far have not been able to.

I’m not on Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Anyway, check it out! To say I was blessed to hear someone calling out the mainstream narrative on some topics would be an understatement.

[Nathan Smart]

https://youtu.be/jXz87GCRBmo

Any of ya’ll heard of this GMC brother?

This song is BANGIN!!!

I listened to the whole album on amazon prime and am LOVING it!!

Even has Hazakim up on there!!

I tried to find out how to contact this GMC brother, but so far have not been able to.

I’m not on Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Anyway, check it out! To say I was blessed to hear someone calling out the mainstream narrative on some topics would be an understatement.

How do you guys live with so much fear and anxiety about all these conspiracies? How do you walk this Earth everyday when you are skeptical of even the most basic facts? How can you trust anyone??

I'm not condescending here - I'm just curious how anyone who questions every observable thing they see can function in society?

[caleb4life]

How do you guys live with so much fear and anxiety about all these conspiracies? How do you walk this Earth everyday when you are skeptical of even the most basic facts? How can you trust anyone??

I'm not condescending here - I'm just curious how anyone who questions every observable thing they see can function in society?

Brother Nathan! Hey man! Thanks for the reply! Great question!

NO FEAR, BUT OF GOD HIMSELF!! (...when I’m abiding in Christ Jesus, which I’m constantly having to learn and grow in).

Personally, I function by setting my mind on things that are above, where Christ Jesus is seated at the right hand of God!

Having that heavenly perspective, and realizing how temporal all these things are, helps tremendously.

That is also my sense of how brother GMC functions, but I cannot speak for him, nor have I met him.

What is fascinating to me is how many believers I have spoken with who are so surprised by how much deception is at work in this world system (that we know is passing away).

To say deception and delusion is rampant would be putting it mildly.

But thanks be to God that in Christ Jesus we have overcome the world (by faith)! I John 5:4-5! (Love the truth!)

Therefore we are free to love everyone (in all truth)!

The whole Biblical cosmology topic has inspired such reverence and awe in my journey of getting to know Christ Jesus better. Painful at times (when others mock and ridicule without so much as taking an honest look into things), scary at times (coming to grips with levels of deception in the world, but having to quickly remember and believe truth), but overall, so worth it!

Love you bro! Keep it Smart!

[Nathan Smart]

But how can you function in a society where you literally can't trust anyone for fear that they are part of the conspiracy?

[caleb4life]

Hey Nathan. Early on when I first stumbled across geocentric cosmology (back in 2015), there were times I was quite shaken (disturbed, scared, confused, paranoid...etc).

I mean the cognitive dissonance was so severe at times. But there was also excitement in my spirit!

Overall, I could not shake the reality and revelation that Christ Jesus himself had deposited in my spirit, that kept testifying to Biblical cosmology being so utterly different than what I had been taught my whole life.

Quite literally, Christ Jesus was my rock, in a deep, substantive way during those early months. Along with the Word of God!

So, as I grew in understanding of Biblical cosmology, I was also growing in knowing Christ Jesus (our Creator of all), and being filled with love and compassion, that others would know Him better also.

You see, it all gets back to knowing Christ Jesus! He is the way, the truth and the life! No one comes to the Father but by Him. Cosmology is NOT the BIG DEAL. Christ Jesus is!

That said, I believe the heliocentric model of cosmology is a lie, perpetrated by Satan himself through many, many means. We know satan is the god of this world, and though his doom is sure, there are still great delusions happening even now, with more surely to come, in these last days.

When it comes to trusting individuals on a day-by-day basis as I function in society, I do not have trouble. I generally trust most people, until they break my trust. I don't live in fear that people are "part of the conspiracy". I know full well that each and every individual alive on this earth is either born again, or not. For those who are born again, we are already eternal family! For those who are not, I love them and desire they would come to know Christ Jesus themselves, through repentance and being born again!

With me not liking to believe lies, nor wanting others to go on believing lies, I am compelled to speak up on matters of truth with whomever will listen, if I have the green light from the Spirit, and a clear conscience and compulsion to speak (write).

When I do speak up about cosmology, usually through asking people questions, most of what I receive in return regarding geocentrism has been mocking, ridicule, scorn, accusation and so on. It's not fun. But I am not angry at people. I do not believe it is my responsibility to convince anyone of the truth. Each person should conduct their own research, prayerfully, as they have interest.

For online cosmology research, here are some helpful resources that I have discovered along the way. I do not agree with everything that any of these people say, but I respect their work, and have learned things from each of them.

www.testingtheglobe.com
http://www.veritasmc.org/flatearth.html
https://youtu.be/2JgSSOCJ62o

Honestly though brother, even being 2.5 years into this Biblical cosmology journey, there is SO MUCH I still have to learn. There's FAR more questions than answers for this Young Bol.

Wow, I wrote a lot more than I intended. Hah!

It's helpful for me to remember also that we are first and foremost citizens of a different "society" (Kingdom), and in that Kingdom, the character of its people ought to be love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law!

The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!

Hallelujah!

Love you brother Nathan! Thanks so much for taking the time to ask thoughtful questions!

What else is on your mind, brother?

[Nathan Smart]

I still can't get around the purpose of Satan lying about the shape of the earth and it's place in the universe. What does it matter if the earth is a globe and revolves around the sun? How does that affect my ability to believe in Jesus (which I do)?

[caleb4life]

It only matters if truth matters.

That said, regarding affecting our ability to believe in Christ Jesus and be born again, I believe that comes purely by grace through faith. I don’t see cosmology anywhere in that.

Edit to add: I do see creation (cosmology) being inextricable from the gospel, because Christ Jesus IS the good news, and He is also our Creator. So surely that is one reason Satan lies in regard to those realities.

“For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” - Romans 1:20

[Nathan Smart]

Why would this guy:

https://www.christianconcern.com/our...s-faith-in-god

lie about the shape of the earth?