The Unpopular Opinion thread.

[Deadmanwalking]

Jay-Z is overrated!

In the overall scheme of things dude is C+ or B- if you want to be generous. Anyone who listened to hip hop back in the 90s should recognize this. When Reasonable Doubt dropped it was average. The single Dead Presidents was a little above. It wasn't until he became a multi-millionaire this album was revisited and heralded as one of hip hop's best. If you notice, any overly positive review of this album probably took place over the past five years. I think his financial success is what is mostly to held responsible for the respect he receives within the genre.

Back in the golden age of hip hop bruh was just another rapper...a good one but far from what he is seen as today. After Big and Pac died which created a huge vacuum (through media/corporate influence, etc), it was filled with emcees like Master P (which despite his success isn't fit to be called an emcee) and others like Jay-Z who could rap but was mediocre. If you notice this is about the time his persona changed from "gambino type" canary yellow suits to "hood type" rockawear. Insert commercially successful tracks courtesy of production by Ye and the Neptunes, an industry heavily influenced by boardroom decisions, a genre lacking lyricism and creativity in the mainstream, hyperactive stans, the resulting financial success and voila! An average emcee regarded as one of the best.

Live long and prosper.

I wouldn't say he's over rated. But his success is definitely in part to filling that vaccuum. But it's not like dude has no skills. Reasonable Doubt was definitely lyrically competative with other projects out at that time. He's no super emcee, but he does have skills. And bringing up the image change is foolish. BIggie went from hoodies and timbs to big willie. Jay went from big willie to hoodies and back. Pac went from ballerina to thug life. It's called being mult faceted. Different parts to their personalities. Except Pac. He was just delusional. I mean, I guess some people hold Jay too highly like he's top 5 of all time (he's not), but he ain't mediocre either.

[Quiet storm]

Lebron James will go down being the second greatest player in NBA history.

[johnq]

You basically repeated what I had already said. As for the image change, I don't care about it one way or the other. He could have worn a Pippy Longstocking wig as far as I'm concerned. I brought it up to show how he was opportunistic or smart depending on your view point to fill the vacuum that existed in rap. That change he was playing into generated some of his rise to fame is what I was getting at. Not his skills.

I wouldn't say he's over rated. But his success is definitely in part to filling that vaccuum. But it's not like dude has no skills. Reasonable Doubt was definitely lyrically competative with other projects out at that time. He's no super emcee, but he does have skills. And bringing up the image change is foolish. BIggie went from hoodies and timbs to big willie. Jay went from big willie to hoodies and back. Pac went from ballerina to thug life. It's called being mult faceted. Different parts to their personalities. Except Pac. He was just delusional. I mean, I guess some people hold Jay too highly like he's top 5 of all time (he's not), but he ain't mediocre either.

Second behind who?

Lebron James will go down being the second greatest player in NBA history.

[iamgoldenstate]

Lebron James will go down being the second greatest player in NBA history.

2nd to Kobe Bryant.

[JT1031]

Go listen to Ether, Nas kills Jay-Z and is better than Jay just based on that song alone.

[Plain Ole Me]

Go listen to Ether, Nas kills Jay-Z and is better than Jay just based on that song alone.

in delivery yes, conceptually no, flowwise no. Go listen to BP2 the song not the album. Jay won, but nobody heard that so it doesn't matter. Jayz v Nas is a perpetual argument *exits thread*

[K3llogz]

Go listen to Ether, Nas kills Jay-Z and is better than Jay just based on that song alone.

Dude stop..u mean that elementary diss song based on 1st grade "homophobic" disses, dude being ugly, dude paying homage to B.i.G in his rhymes, etc. Ur comparing that to one verse on Takeover that literally smacks nas in the face based on actual facts of Him sleeping with his baby mama, what he raps about in his rhymes being fake, taking his own song and making it his, taking shots at his oochie wally verse, his stats in sales. Etc. Takeover verse 3 is better than Ether. The fact people compare Ether to a verse on Takeover is testament to that.

Cmon son

[Quiet storm]

Second behind who?

Jordan aka the GOAT

[K3llogz]

Go listen to Ether, Nas kills Jay-Z and is better than Jay just based on that song alone.

Dude stop..u mean that elementary diss song based on 1st grade "homophobic" disses, dude being ugly, dude paying homage to B.i.G in his rhymes, etc. Ur comparing that to one verse on Takeover that literally smacks nas in the face based on actual facts of Him sleeping with his baby mama, what he raps about in his rhymes being fake, taking his own song and making it his, taking shots at his oochie wally verse, his stats in sales. Etc. Takeover verse 3 is better than Ether. The fact people compare Ether to a verse on Takeover is testament to that.

Cmon son

[Quiet storm]

2nd to Kobe Bryant.

Welcome back Vic

[johnq]

OK.

So you think he'll end up being better than Kobe? I don't know bruh

We'll see.

Jordan aka the GOAT

[Quiet storm]

OK.

So you think he'll end up being better than Kobe? I don't know bruh

We'll see.

He has been better than Kobe for several years. Many people consider this season of his to be one of the best individual seasons in NBA history but the fact of the matter is he was putting up the same kind of stats in his second NBA season he just had a wack supporting cast but the talent was still there. Kobe is a great player but he is also the product of being around great talent. You take him off the Lakers and put Iverson in his place and Iverson would also have 5 rings. You put Kobe on those Sixers teams and he would be ringless.

P.S. By the way speaking of Iverson and the Sixers I saw Larry Brown his old coach at my school recruiting some of our players.

[JT1031]

He has been better than Kobe for several years. Many people consider this season of his to be one of the best individual seasons in NBA history but the fact of the matter is he was putting up the samekind of stats in his second NBA season he just had a wack supporting cast but the talent was still there.

Except not.

[Plain Ole Me]

Lebron James will go down being the second greatest player in NBA history.

Kobe is a great player but he is also the product of being around great talent.

[Quiet storm]

Did Lebron have Wade and Bosh when he led the Cavs to the finals in 07? Did Lebron have Wade or Bosh when for two consecutive seasons he led his team to having the best record in the NBA? In Kobe's three years after Shaq left and before he had Gasol he was unable to advance beyond the first round of the playoffs. Infact in his first year without Shaq he was unable to lead his team to even make the playoffs.

[Quiet storm]

Except not.

?

[Plain Ole Me]

Did Lebron have Wade and Bosh when he led the Cavs to the finals in 07? Did Lebron have Wade or Bosh when for two consecutive seasons he led his team to having the best record in the NBA? In Kobe's three years after Shaq left and before he had Gasol he was unable to advance beyond the first round of the playoffs. Infact in his first year without Shaq he was unable to lead his team to even make the playoffs.

I don't doubt Lebron's skills, he has the propensity to be a better talent as his PHYSICAL gifting is far superior to Bean's. Kobe's game has been in decline since 07 he was what 12 seasons in the game and had plenty of mileage at 29 years young. In comparison Lebron in 07 was in his 5th season and was 23 years old. That alone marks a stark reasoning for their differences.

As for failing to win a chip in 04.. you must be a revisionist historian because you neglect to mention. Shaq left an incredible void on the Lakers when he went to South Beach, not to mention Bean was coming off the rape trial.

As a die hard Celtics I'm disgusted you've got me defending this guy.

[Quiet storm]

I don't doubt Lebron's skills, he has the propensity to be a better talent as his PHYSICAL gifting is far superior to Bean's. Kobe's game has been in decline since 07 he was what 12 seasons in the game and had plenty of mileage at 29 years young. In comparison Lebron in 07 was in his 5th season and was 23 years old. That alone marks a stark reasoning for their differences.

As for failing to win a chip in 04.. you must be a revisionist historian because you neglect to mention. Shaq left an incredible void on the Lakers when he went to South Beach, not to mention Bean was coming off the rape trial.

As a die hard Celtics I'm disgusted you've got me defending this guy.

I was not trying to make a comparison between Lebron and Kobe in 2007 I believe you missed my point so let me try to be clearer. The thing that sets Lebron over Kobe is that he has proven that he is able to do more with less. In 2007 Lebron led a team with a bunch of role players to the NBA finals. In the Eastern conference playoffs they were able to take out a very tough Pistons team that had the same core players who took out the Lakers in 04. Lebron single handedly won game 5 for them as he scored something like 30 out of his team final 31 points. In his last two years in Cleveland he continued to lead his team of role players as they had the best record in the league. As far as Kobe is concerned I didnt neglect to mention anything for I mentioned the fact that Shaq left but my point was that when Kobe is not surrounded by another star he is not able to have any team success. He had a team with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom and was not even able to make it into the playoffs. Granted the Lakers battled with some injuries that year but Lebron was able to carry his team deep into the playoffs despite playing with glorified D leaguers.

P.S. Lebron came into the league at the same age as Kobe and outside of the team championships (Lebron did not come into the league with Shaq on his team) Bron has been a more accomplished player at 27 (League MVP-3 Finals MVP-1).

[Plain Ole Me]

There is a huge difference between ECF & WCF especially in 07.

[Deadmanwalking]

You basically repeated what I had already said. As for the image change, I don't care about it one way or the other. He could have worn a Pippy Longstocking wig as far as I'm concerned. I brought it up to show how he was opportunistic or smart depending on your view point to fill the vacuum that existed in rap. That change he was playing into generated some of his rise to fame is what I was getting at. Not his skills.



Second behind who?

Not really. You said he's mediocre. I'm saying he wasn't. Dude was making waves with dead presidents while big was still alive. His skills were giving him a name on his way up before big died. And in his second album he was still doing the big willie thing. I don't see how the image change had anything to do with filling biggie's void since biggie was on the big willie tip before his death. Jay being the business man he is, we can't just assume that he'd stay in biggie's shadow. He was on his way up already. His growth was easier because of that void, but I still think he would've blown up.