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  1. #61
    Young Bol Redd Lettaz's Avatar
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    all i'm gonna say is we need to love the man and restore him and that goes beyond just praying ....

  2. #62
    HCR Veterano DJ Wade-O's Avatar
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    Wow....I aint been on since I posted the link last night and I have to agree with BC, this really has been one of the better threads I have seen on HCR.

    Bond Servant, to answer your question. Acknowledging the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is important to me. Prior to the interview did I tihnk it was a good question to ask Tonex? Yes. During the interview, did I think it would have added value to the interview? No. Thats why I didn't ask him. He articulated his beliefs and honestly I felt asking him about does he belief in the trinity would have started going down the path of theological discussion, which is not what I was shooting for. My Suggestion...if you really want to have that discussion with him...hit on myspace. www.myspace.com/tonexworld. He gets a ton of email so I cant promise he will reply to you, but its worth a shot.

  3. #63
    HCR Veterano DJ Wade-O's Avatar
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    Sorry I didnt post this earlier

  4. #64
    HCR Ole' Head BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    Wade, since this one's actually ending on a good note, would you mind terribly if I closed it ? I don't think much more can be added than has already been said.

    I'll wait for your answer.
    STILL BLACK :: STILL REFORMED :: STILL AROUND
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  5. #65
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    Lord, we continue to pray for repentance from one of your hurting sons. I pray that his anger will turn into faith, love, and hope. Allow him to know that we have been called to a uneasy life, a life that continuously should have us looking forward to the consummation of your Kingdom. Father, we are kingdom kids living in a different kingdom, a kingdom that is lofty and haughty but that has no future. I pray that Tonex will recognize that all of the decrees of this world will be rendered unsuccessful and that your eternal decree, your word, will last for eternity. Expunge the anger and bitterness in his heart so that he may be saved from darkness and brought into eternal light. As sons and daughters of your Kingdom, we should expect to be thrown in the fiery furnace at times but allow it to be for righteousness sake knowing that you will be with us through the fire. Please, do not treat Tonex according to his sins, but I pray that your patience and mercy will lead him to repentance. Restore his soul Lord!

    In the name of Christ Jesus!

  6. #66
    HCR Ole' Head The_Expositor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfight! View Post
    Can't argue w/scripture.
    For a person to be restored, they must be a brother to begin with. Nothing about the song, this interview or anything else I've seen or heard from Tonex indicates that he's been born again. I'm not trying to be super-critical, but he seems like he's trying so hard to justify his sin rather than repent of it.

    He continues to curse openly and blatantly throughout the entire interview. I'm sorry, but that's just not in agreement with the Spirit of God living within a believer. Peep what God said about those He would regenerate:

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. Ezekiel 36:22-27

    The thing is, Tonex continues to profane the name of the Lord among the heathen. We are to be representatives of God in the earth as His image bearers. If we have foul mouths, we show the world that it must be okay for us to be that way. God must not care too much if He allows us to be His children and have foul mouths and nonchalant attitudes about our sin.

    Some may want to stone me, but I don't believe from what I've heard, that Tonex is a brother. Everyone's talking about restoration, but I think we'd be foolish and doing a disservice to Tonex if we didn't consider his salvation.
    "He who hates, disguises it with his lips, and lays up deceit within himself; When he speaks kindly, do not believ him, for there are seven abominations in his heart." Proverbs 26

  7. #67
    HCR Ole' Head jnorman888's Avatar
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    When looking at this issue I only had the Oneness view in mind. I wasn't even looking at the fact that he was going through hard times.

    He went through a divorce and that alone can make a person depressed for months. He may of gone through some other hard times as well. So maybe reaching out to dude for the hurt and pain of life in general is needed.


    As a person he needs help. I don't agree with the theology I thought he believed in and I disagree with his choice of fellowship, but as a person the man is truely in need of some help.


    And he needs to be helped.





    INLOVE Jnorm

    Tonex is still made in God's Image so I need to love him anyway. Even when it is hard to because of what I believe to be true and right.

    God still wants us to love, and I will try to do that even when I don't understand nor want to.
    Last edited by jnorman888; 06-26-2007 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #68
    HCR Veterano ROB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Expositor View Post
    For a person to be restored, they must be a brother to begin with. Nothing about the song, this interview or anything else I've seen or heard from Tonex indicates that he's been born again. I'm not trying to be super-critical, but he seems like he's trying so hard to justify his sin rather than repent of it.

    He continues to curse openly and blatantly throughout the entire interview. I'm sorry, but that's just not in agreement with the Spirit of God living within a believer. Peep what God said about those He would regenerate:

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. Ezekiel 36:22-27

    The thing is, Tonex continues to profane the name of the Lord among the heathen. We are to be representatives of God in the earth as His image bearers. If we have foul mouths, we show the world that it must be okay for us to be that way. God must not care too much if He allows us to be His children and have foul mouths and nonchalant attitudes about our sin.

    Some may want to stone me, but I don't believe from what I've heard, that Tonex is a brother. Everyone's talking about restoration, but I think we'd be foolish and doing a disservice to Tonex if we didn't consider his salvation.
    I agree with you on this. After listening to the interview, he needs salvation. Sounds like he's been just a "church person" since ProNounced TonNay.

  9. #69
    Young Bol kingsman2ki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Expositor View Post
    For a person to be restored, they must be a brother to begin with. Nothing about the song, this interview or anything else I've seen or heard from Tonex indicates that he's been born again. I'm not trying to be super-critical, but he seems like he's trying so hard to justify his sin rather than repent of it.

    He continues to curse openly and blatantly throughout the entire interview. I'm sorry, but that's just not in agreement with the Spirit of God living within a believer. Peep what God said about those He would regenerate:

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. Ezekiel 36:22-27

    The thing is, Tonex continues to profane the name of the Lord among the heathen. We are to be representatives of God in the earth as His image bearers. If we have foul mouths, we show the world that it must be okay for us to be that way. God must not care too much if He allows us to be His children and have foul mouths and nonchalant attitudes about our sin.

    Some may want to stone me, but I don't believe from what I've heard, that Tonex is a brother. Everyone's talking about restoration, but I think we'd be foolish and doing a disservice to Tonex if we didn't consider his salvation.

    Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

    Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

    even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

    Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

    Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


    We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....

  10. #70
    HCR Veterano Lynaz24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsman2ki View Post
    Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

    Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

    even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

    Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

    Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


    We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....
    In the words of the great 20th century philosopher Paris Hilton....

    "That's Hot"

  11. #71
    HCR Ole' Head The_Expositor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsman2ki View Post
    Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

    Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

    even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

    Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

    Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


    We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....
    I'm not here to argue you with you bro, but I believe I am discerning spiritually, through the Word of God. I am not basing it upon "feelings" or "emotions" for another human being. You said that I am hung up with outward symptoms and not the root problem. With that, I don't think you really read my post.

    I am concerned with the root problem. That root problem is sin. It's not that he was touched by a preacher when he was six years old. It's not about G Craige Lewis. It's not about anyone else but Tonex's own sin, and until he stops blaming everyone else for the sin that HE commits, what can a person do? The outward symptoms are an expression of the inner man. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

    It's not simply about saying you're sorry for what you've said or done. It's about truly being sorry and then STOPPING your constant sin. He said that he knows the Scripture but doesn't want to hear it when folks bring it to him. He admits that he knew the Scripture beforehand and STILL decided to do it.

    It's not about being self-righteous at all. It's about showing REAL concern for another soul, who was created in the image of God. If we say that we love a blind man, yet we see him walking dangerously close to the edge of a cliff and we don't yell out to him that he's going to perish if he continues going, then we don't really love him at all.

    I am praying for Tonex. I am praying for those who follow him and feel the same way as well. But most of all, I am praying that he would turn to the Lord is true repentance, which will bring forth real fruit meet with repentance, and then glorify God as He should be glorified. God is not glorified in anything he's currently doing.
    "He who hates, disguises it with his lips, and lays up deceit within himself; When he speaks kindly, do not believ him, for there are seven abominations in his heart." Proverbs 26

  12. #72
    HCR Veterano joseph29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Expositor View Post
    I'm not here to argue you with you bro, but I believe I am discerning spiritually, through the Word of God. I am not basing it upon "feelings" or "emotions" for another human being. You said that I am hung up with outward symptoms and not the root problem. With that, I don't think you really read my post.

    I am concerned with the root problem. That root problem is sin. It's not that he was touched by a preacher when he was six years old. It's not about G Craige Lewis. It's not about anyone else but Tonex's own sin, and until he stops blaming everyone else for the sin that HE commits, what can a person do? The outward symptoms are an expression of the inner man. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

    It's not simply about saying you're sorry for what you've said or done. It's about truly being sorry and then STOPPING your constant sin. He said that he knows the Scripture but doesn't want to hear it when folks bring it to him. He admits that he knew the Scripture beforehand and STILL decided to do it.

    It's not about being self-righteous at all. It's about showing REAL concern for another soul, who was created in the image of God. If we say that we love a blind man, yet we see him walking dangerously close to the edge of a cliff and we don't yell out to him that he's going to perish if he continues going, then we don't really love him at all.

    praying for Tonex. I am praying for those who follow him and feel the same way as well. But most of all, I am praying that he would turn to the Lord is true repentance, which will bring forth real fruit meet with repentance, and then glorify God as He should be glorified. God is not glorified in anything he's I am currently doing.
    I agree 100% with what you said, and i think most people on this board will agree with you. I dont think there's anyone on here who is agreeing with Tonex's actions. From listening to the interview to me it seems as though dude was not trying to defend his sin, but the reason he was sinning. The guy has been through so much to me it sounds like he's at his breaking point, and he wanted to release everything inside of him. But one thing I do know is that God still loves him. I can tell from the fact that all these people are concerned for him, even cats that may not necessarily be fans of his music. I cant say if dude is saved or not, judgement belongs to God.
    I mean look at david, as a king he commited adultary and than had her husband killed in battle. I'm sure if his story ended right there many of us would question if david was truly a man after God's own heart. But God gave him a chance to repent and earn forgiveness from him. So i say lets pray that God gives Tonex a chance to earn repentance, and renew his relationship with God.

  13. #73
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    Actually Kingsman, it's still on a good note.

    Re-read what Expo is saying. The Bible approaches issues of behavior not as a matter of 'some hurt we've experienced' (which is psychology and unbiblical), but as a matter of what originates from within us that defiles us (Matthew 15:15-20). Pain, hurt, etc... are no excuse for his behavior. Period. That's scripture. 1 John 3:1-10 and Galatians 5 don't have exception clauses for 'having a bad day'.

    What is needed is biblical repentance. Godly sorrow leads to repentance (David ala Psalm 51) and salvation. Worldly sorrow (Judas) makes one feel sorry for their sin or the results of their sin, but doesn't take care of turning them away from doing it or other sin again.

    So while Tonex might be feeling a bit of worldly sorrow over the reaction saints have given him for his language, he's not feeling godly sorrow - at least he wasn't as of the interview with Wade because he kept cursing like it was no thing.

    So you can spend time focused on his pain all you'd like. But the issue at hand - the FIRST issue at hand - is how he reacts to it. Job lost a lot more than he did, but the scriptures tell us that Job did NOT sin with his lips during that whole time (Job 1-2). Instead, he reacted to the tradgedy in his life with praise and worship to God. Even when his wife told him to curse God and die, he, with sores covering his body, did not.

    So Expo has actually brought some additional BIBLICAL wisdom to this discussion that I think you haven't really taken into consideration.

    My observation.

    Grace.

  14. #74
    HCR Familia 4Sight Sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Expositor View Post

    It's not about being self-righteous at all. It's about showing REAL concern for another soul, who was created in the image of God. If we say that we love a blind man, yet we see him walking dangerously close to the edge of a cliff and we don't yell out to him that he's going to perish if he continues going, then we don't really love him at all.

    I am praying for Tonex. I am praying for those who follow him and feel the same way as well. But most of all, I am praying that he would turn to the Lord is true repentance, which will bring forth real fruit meet with repentance, and then glorify God as He should be glorified. God is not glorified in anything he's currently doing.
    ....I was starting to think I was losing my mind, 'til I read this.

  15. #75
    HCR Veterano BondServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsman2ki View Post
    Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity... i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.
    Whether or not he believes in the Trinity?!?!?!?

    I'm gonna start fellowshipping with satanists then.


    *walks out of thread mumbling to himself*

  16. #76
    HCR Veterano ROB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsman2ki View Post
    Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

    Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

    even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

    Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

    Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


    We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....
    How is washing our hands of someone not being Christ-like?

    Bro, I'm gonna have to agree with Ex on this one. Ex is not being self righteous according to the Bible. The mentality you have towards this situation is considered "puffed up" or "proud" according to the Word. I pray that many that share your point of view stop being manipulated through their emotions and start allowing the Word to dictate to you the stance to take in certain situaitons.

    Here's scripture:

    1 Corinthians 5:1-2
    1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

    2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.


    Now I know many try to ignore verse 2, but Paul was calling the church proud because they didn't mourn because of what this person did and wanted the person removed from the church. Of course the goal is repentance, AND NOT HIS DEMISE, but in many cases true repentance won't happen without some form of discipline going forth first.

    Do you want to see what else your mentality is leading you to be guilty of?

    Proverbs 17:15
    He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

    You are sitting there typing that it doesn't matter that Tonex didn't sincerely repent of his actions? That means you are justifying his wickedness and that mentality is an abomination to God! You say you are looking at his heart, well Jesus said out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. What's been coming of his mouth? Cursing, bitterness and pain!! Why? Because he hasn't been real with God in private. He hadn't truly given his heart to Jesus.

    Tonex is not only a singer, he is also a pastor A LEADER IN THE BODY! You are completely ignoring the tremendous influence this guy has on hundreds of thousands of people and how he doesn't even seem to care. He didn't seem one bit interested in shouldering the responsibility he has of leading those he has influenced. Rather than being like Paul and saying, "follow me as I follow Christ", he pulled a Stacie Orrico "Don't look at me, look at Him".

    You can't handle a leader in the church the same as someone who isn't. And if an unbeliever gets to be a leader in the church, that should be an embarrasment to the church!

    So now I pose the question to you that Paul posed to the church in Corinth.

    Are you proud and not rather mourned that the man who has done these things should be taken away from us?

    Selah.

  17. #77
    HCR Veterano DJ Wade-O's Avatar
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    BC...my opinion keep it open bro. You close threads when they get bad. You shouldn't close them when they get good. Even with what Expo, Rob and others have added, its good convo. As believers, even when we don't agree, we should look at all sides of teh situation, becsause we just might learn something.

    This will not be the last time that any of us encounter a situation like this. It may not be as public as Tonex, but still. I do hope this is able to be a learning experience for all of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsman2ki View Post
    Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity,

    WHOAH SON! I ain't see this before.

    If he doesn't believe in the Trinity, he's not a Christian.

    Period.

    There is no other God in the Bible but the Triune God (Isaiah 48:12-16). Believe in any other concept of God, you believe in an IDOL.

    Further, there is no GOSPEL without the Trinity.

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    HCR Veterano BondServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry1914 View Post
    Further, there is no GOSPEL without the Trinity.
    Nope, no salvation without it.

    Eph. 1:3-14

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    HCR Ole' Head jnorman888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BondServant View Post
    Nope, no salvation without it.

    Eph. 1:3-14

    True, but you can still love him as a person. The dude is in need of help, so hate the sin but love the sinner.







    Inlove jnorm

    You don't have to call him a christian in order to feel for him.

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