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  1. #61
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    yo BTW!!!

    Son of Man, i am not bashin you.... 5 years ago... i said the same tihngs

    praise God for his freedom from man made laws

    perhaps you will always be convinced of your stance, don't go against your conscience

    perhaps you will hear us out

    either way, i respect you & hope there is not hard feelings!

    *tsssssssssss-crack* "This Bud's for you!" *gulp* *gulp* "ahhhh"

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    HCR Veterano Lynaz24's Avatar
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    Okay here's a good summary of this thread.

    It's not against the scripture to partake of fermented drinks. The bible is against being in a state of drunkeness, characterized as a drunkard or using alcohol as a crutch or an escape from life's problems i.e. making it an idol b/c you are putting it above seeking God for peace and release.

    If you choose to partake of fermented drinks, accorsing to Romans be careful that you don't cause someone to stumble by what you enjoy. Meaning if you see nothing wrong with drinking, but if you are in the company of people who are not mature enough to understand your biblical point of view...DONT DRINK..

    If you are in the presence of unsaved and they are getting tanked and you are hoping to witness to them and they are getting drunk..Probably not the best idea to be drinking while your witnessing...

    Rely on the spirit and the scriptures and lean not on your own understanding..

    So endeth the lesson.

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    Son of man,

    Here are some examples from scripture.

    God gives wine to Israel as a Covenant Blessing:

    Gen 27:28
    May God give you of the dew of heaven
    and of the fatness of the earth
    and plenty of grain and wine.

    Deut. 7:13
    He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you.


    Deut. 11:14
    He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you.


    Deut.33:28

    28So Israel lived in safety,
    Jacob lived alone,[a]
    in a land of grain and wine,
    whose heavens drop down dew.

    It was also used as an acceptable offering to God

    Num. 15:5-10
    and you shall offer with the burnt offering, or for the sacrifice, a quarter of a hin of wine for the drink offering for each lamb. 6Or for a ram, you shall offer for a grain offering two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with a third of a hin of oil. 7And for the drink offering you shall offer a third of a hin of wine, a pleasing aroma to the LORD. 8And when you offer a bull as a burnt offering or sacrifice, to fulfill a vow or for peace offerings to the LORD, 9then one shall offer with the bull a grain offering of three tenths of an ephah of fine flour, mixed with half a hin of oil. 10And you shall offer for the drink offering half a hin of wine, as a food offering, a pleasing aroma to the LORD.

    Here God encourages it's use

    Deut. 14:26
    and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

  4. #64
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    one more point, shouldnt we perform our sacriments the way Jesus instructed us?

    communion with out wine?

  5. #65
    HCR Ole' Head JARZJR's Avatar
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    I'm gonna have to agree with the majority on this one. As long as you are of legal drinking age in your country and you do not get drunk then you are not in sin. However, you could cause a weaker brother to sin...

    Question: At what point is one considered drunk? Is a buzz drunk?

    East Point Church, located in South Atlanta

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynaz24 View Post
    Okay here's a good summary of this thread.

    It's not against the scripture to partake of fermented drinks. The bible is against being in a state of drunkeness, characterized as a drunkard or using alcohol as a crutch or an escape from life's problems i.e. making it an idol b/c you are putting it above seeking God for peace and release.

    If you choose to partake of fermented drinks, accorsing to Romans be careful that you don't cause someone to stumble by what you enjoy. Meaning if you see nothing wrong with drinking, but if you are in the company of people who are not mature enough to understand your biblical point of view...DONT DRINK..

    If you are in the presence of unsaved and they are getting tanked and you are hoping to witness to them and they are getting drunk..Probably not the best idea to be drinking while your witnessing...

    Rely on the spirit and the scriptures and lean not on your own understanding..

    So endeth the lesson.
    amen, lets also make sure we apply this to cake and fast food

    ya'll folks that be eating a big mac in front of really fat people are messed up!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JARZJR View Post
    I'm gonna have to agree with the majority on this one. As long as you are of legal drinking age in your country and you do not get drunk then you are not in sin. However, you could cause a weaker brother to sin...

    Question: At what point is one considered drunk? Is a buzz drunk?
    good point! if you are under 21, you are breaking the law

    buzz = drunk? no

    just like a gut aint gluttony

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by son of man View Post
    from my understanding of the fermentation process, the reason why you put "new" wine into new wine skins was so when it eventually did ferment, the new wine skins would have room to stretch out.

    you wouldn't put "new" wine that wasn't fermented into old wineskins b/c whenever the fermentation process began the old skins (which were already stretched out due to fermentation) would have stretched out even more causing them to burst.

    the fact of the matter is that in the greek, there aren't seperate words for unfermented and fermented wine. there isn't a greek word for boone's farm and another one for welches. you just have the same word used to describe both. therefore depending on the context, you make conclusions as to which one is referred to. that's sorta unfortunate and causes much confusion. however, that's a natural limitation of the greek language.

    Can you point to an account where oinon doesn't mean alcoholic wine? Cause even in this case, their goal is to get it fermented.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctide View Post
    one more point, shouldnt we perform our sacriments the way Jesus instructed us?

    communion with out wine?
    We use real wine.

  10. #70
    HCR Veterano Lynaz24's Avatar
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    Question though....I'm all for beer and wine and mild mixed drinks..

    But..I'm not sure if straight shots of GIN or Patron fall under this liberty b/c I'm not sure one drinks HARD HARD liquor to enjoy the taste..Is it just me??

    Are we in agreement with one having a beer and the other a shot of yak..lol...cuz I draw the line there..

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynaz24 View Post
    Question though....I'm all for beer and wine and mild mixed drinks..

    But..I'm not sure if straight shots of GIN or Patron fall under this liberty b/c I'm not sure one drinks HARD HARD liquor to enjoy the taste..Is it just me??

    Are we in agreement with one having a beer and the other a shot of yak..lol...cuz I draw the line there..
    Well, I don't make my arguments based on it being a liberty issue if God's word is clear. I drink vodka, gin, cognac, rum and scotch. Don't get me wrong, it's an occasional thing and I'm not just tossin them back, but I do drink them.

    Here Yahweh encourages its use.

    Deut. 14:26
    and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

  12. #72
    HCR Veterano Lynaz24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BondServant View Post
    Well, I don't make my arguments based on it being a liberty issue if God's word is clear. I drink vodka, gin, cognac, rum and scotch. Don't get me wrong, it's an occasional thing and I'm not just tossin them back, but I do drink them.

    Here Yahweh encourages its use.

    Deut. 14:26
    and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
    Well liberty was the wrong word to use..umm..Do you drink the above straight, mixed with other things..coke, fruit juice etc.. If not, do you enjoy the taste of straight Gin? Cuz I was a heavy drinker back in the BC days and I don't remember that tasting too good...BUT..a Mojito is bangin

  13. #73
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    it taste like cleaning agents

  14. #74
    HCR Veterano Lynaz24's Avatar
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    that liquor is straight from the pits..Along with Everclear..lol

  15. #75
    HCR Veterano Cyple's Avatar
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    I drink occasionally. I don't see the big deal. I am an adult mature Christian. I am not an impressionable child anymore. If there are some secular people that can handle drinking, how much more power do we have as Christians?

    I think if a lot of Christians weren't as uptight as many of us are, we might win more souls.

    Don't you know how good a glass or 2 of beer is after a hard days work? Try it you might see your stress levels go down a bit.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynaz24 View Post
    Well liberty was the wrong word to use..umm..Do you drink the above straight, mixed with other things..coke, fruit juice etc.. If not, do you enjoy the taste of straight Gin? Cuz I was a heavy drinker back in the BC days and I don't remember that tasting too good...BUT..a Mojito is bangin
    Well, with Gin, i like a Tom Collins. I used to kill Gin back in H.S. So, no, I don't really like it unless it's a Tom Collins. It's rare(but it is the season for it now) that I drink that.

    I drink Vodka with fruity juices.

    I like the taste of cognac.

    I like the taste of scotch, but I dilute it cause it can burn the nose hairs.

    I have a couple decanters and I enjoy some cognac or some scotch before going to bed.

    Nothin like a glass of wine with a steak or some lamb though. It's the best.

  17. #77
    HCR Veterano Jeffr0cks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BondServant View Post
    Here Yahweh encourages its use.

    Deut. 14:26
    and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
    I'm going to chill and enjoy the night with my favorite oxen... lol
    I'm on Facebook and Google+

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    HCR Veterano Jeffr0cks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynaz24 View Post
    BUT..a Mojito is bangin
    that's a gay drink is it not?
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyple View Post
    I drink occasionally. I don't see the big deal. I am an adult mature Christian. I am not an impressionable child anymore. If there are some secular people that can handle drinking, how much more power do we have as Christians?

    I think if a lot of Christians weren't as uptight as many of us are, we might win more souls.

    Don't you know how good a glass or 2 of beer is after a hard days work? Try it you might see your stress levels go down a bit.
    Wouldn't that fall into the category of gettin tipsy..I mean to drink for the taste of it is one thing..To drink fermented drinks for the purpose of relaxation, does that open another can o worms..I'm just asking..No beef

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyple View Post
    Don't you know how good a glass or 2 of beer is after a hard days work? Try it you might see your stress levels go down a bit.
    There's nothin like a cold beer after a hard days work. Especially when you get done mowing the yard and your wife hands you a cold one. You pop that top and see that smoke(whatever that is) come out boy ain't nothin like that first swig. It goes down so smooth.

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