Johnathan Edwards in light of Roots and possible Double Standards

[king neb]

so that's it then? ....eternal jumps in and reads things into my posts...Moody concurs and doesn't supply any info from Philemon as I asked.

oh well... i guess i'll hop off the train of thought also and move on to other things.

[eternal]

Don't forget this too sis!!!


1 Timothy 1:9-11

9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

That is a great passage, because it shows something us western intellectual elites often neglect, that ACTIONS is theology too. We often celebrate the intellectual assent, but neglect the equally important life lived doctrine. Here Paul calls ACTIONS "sound doctrine."

Good word.

[eternal]

so that's it then? ....eternal jumps in and reads things into my posts...Moody concurs and doesn't supply any info from Philemon as I asked.

oh well... i guess i'll hop off the train of thought also and move on to other things.

Perhaps you can tell us what you had in mind when you asked to tell you something about Philemon? We all are familiar with the letter, maybe it would help if you would just get to your point? I admitted at the time I made my post I may have misunderstood. So I am hoping, as I asked, you would "clarify."

What is it about Philemon's status that helps us understand the Edwards situation?

[BondServant]

nah...not much to say. lol. i expect that from vanTillians. hahaha.

I think you have assumed too much. I haven't offered any points one way or the other.

John Frame

[king neb]

bond...just ribbing you over a past reference to vanTil. No harm done.

eternal...i attempted to get Moody on a train of thought to eventually lead to the issue with Edwards and how he is treated. But if Moody doesn't want to participate, then i won't waste my time. I'm not playing that game.

If folks don't want to THINK through something but rather post off-the-wall stuff and draw in cheerleaders for your squad, why the heck post the questions to begin with?

sorry..not interested.

[eternal]

bond...just ribbing you over a past reference to vanTil. No harm done.

eternal...i attempted to get Moody on a train of thought to eventually lead to the issue with Edwards and how he is treated. But if Moody doesn't want to participate, then i won't waste my time. I'm not playing that game.

If folks don't want to THINK through something but rather post off-the-wall stuff and draw in cheerleaders for your squad, why the heck post the questions to begin with?

sorry..not interested.

I'm interested. I'll stand in for Moody.

[BondServant]

bond...just ribbing you over a past reference to vanTil. No harm done.

I was only messing with you cause you said the same thing to eternal.

[LENZ_1]

it would really screw with their theology and thoughts on certain subjects.

Like what?

Am i the only one that has read Philemon in here?

Didn't Paul encourage Philemon to receive Onesimus as a brother, instead of a slave? How does that support having slaves?

[3SpiritsEM]

Hey yall, if only American slavery is wrong. Let"s go to Africa, or India or China or any place other than America and buy us some slaves then. As long as we keep them in their homeland and treat um real nice its all good.

[The apologist]

man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please let us not judge JE for this one sin, I hope all of his accusers are living a more righteous life than JE, Jonah, David, Samson and Solomon.

Thank you LORD for your grace that you would forgive men like these

[eternal]

man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please let us not judge JE for this one sin, I hope all of his accusers are living a more righteous life than JE, Jonah, David, Samson and Solomon.

Thank you LORD for your grace that you would forgivr man like these

Do you say the same thing about those who critique Creflo? Jakes? Hinn? Olsteen?

[The apologist]

Do you say the same thing about those who critique Creflo? Jakes? Hinn? Olsteen?

no

[eternal]

no

lol. At least you are honest about your hypocrisy.

[seal]

Yo,

Wait a minute here all you JE Bashers.... Have you read your own Bible??? It wouldn't seem you have.... If ya'll want to say that Edwards wasn't a Believer then guess who else you are going to have to add to that list.....Clears throat ....

Names----- Sin
1. Abraham Doubted God and had Concubines

2.Samson He was just nasty!!!

3.David Murder, Adultery,Concubines

4.Solomon Pimping on wax...

5.Lot Having sex with daughters

6.Gideon Doubted God and had many wives

7. Jacob Con-Artist, Multiple wives, Lier...


So please all of you who bash JE for his sins I want you to start a post on each one these guys who are considered Hall of Famers in Scripture but who committed the worst sins habitually. Also don't listen to the message they taught and reject all of the Psalms, Proverbs and books that David and Solomon wrote b/c how could the Lord use such a man as David and Solomon right??? Ridiculous

You all act as if we are trying to re-institute slavery or something b/c Edwards did it. Edwards was just sinner saved by Grace just like all you Eph. 4:29Eph. 4:29Eph. 4:29Eph. 4:29Eph. 4:29Eph. 4:29Eph. 4:29 are. I'm sure he's in Glory laughing at your accusations against his down falls and so are the rest of the saints. God uses the lest likely people who are terrible sinners themselves for his Glory. Unfortunately us Americans are very blind of the terrible sinners we are therefore we condemn others of their sins. However, Heresy isn't just a sin but it's teachings. If you are teaching Heresy then you either need to be informed of Truth or you aren't part of the Flock. None of the saints I listed above were ever charged with Heresy. Think about it first, then respond...


Romans 8:33

33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

Hail King Jesus,
seal

[eternal]

Seal you have missed the entire point of this thread. The Apostle Paul said that slave trading was a matter of "sound doctrine" and those who participated did not have it.

So the question of the thread, that MANY people have misunderstood (so don't feel bad) is WHY is there an apparent double standard?

Why do some people flip out when JE is mentioned, but then the same people will "bash" TD Jakes and Creflo, and Hinn and Olsteen?

The question is about a "double standard" as the THREAD TITLE makes known.

Maybe you can add another post that actually deals with the topic of the thread?

[Spiderman]

lol. At least you are honest about your hypocrisy.

Is being a "sinner" different then teaching false doctrine?

[WhyMe]

Why is it that the same criteria of someone possibly being a false convert won't be applied to Edwards?

I wonder what the saved non-slave owners said about JE back then? For example, there are confessing saved preachers and people who disagree with many things John Piper has said and done recently (i.e. unclean language, Remaining in fellowship with unlike yolk) and acknowledge these things as sin, but they are not questioning his salvation. Here is a whole thread where people are debating just about John Piper! http://www.sharperiron.org/showthrea...50&page=1&pp=7

This is just the first example that came to my mind. Sin is Sin and God hates all sin. I would hate for somebody to say I must be a false convert every time I sin because I do it everyday.

[seal]

Seal you have missed the entire point of this thread. The Apostle Paul said that slave trading was a matter of "sound doctrine" and those who participated did not have it.

So the question of the thread, that MANY people have misunderstood (so don't feel bad) is WHY is there an apparent double standard?

Why do some people flip out when JE is mentioned, but then the same people will "bash" TD Jakes and Creflo, and Hinn and Olsteen?

The question is about a "double standard" as the THREAD TITLE makes known.

Maybe you can add another post that actually deals with the topic of the thread?

Okay cookie....I haven't missed any point but proven a tremendous point instead.

1 Timothy 1:9-11

9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Now after reading this verse tuff guy, how doesn't all the people I listed not fall into this category as well.

Abraham---- Liar, Adulter, pervert
Lot---- Pervert
Samson---- All the above except slave trader and Parent killer
Solomon----Adulter, pervert
David---- Murder, Pervert, adulter..... Need I say more, Are you saying David didn't teach sound doctrine COOKIE????

So maybe you aren't understanding the gist of the arguement you're making against this man's one sin from above. B/c the saints did a lot worst. But Edwards wasn't on some Heresy like the guys you are listing so maybe you need to re-read what being posed to you. WHY DOES JE GET HARASSED FOR HIS SIN BUT NOT THESE SAINTS? And also.... Joel Osteen, Creflo, and Jakes preach Heresy maybe not to you but to some of us, so can any of these charges be laid against Edwards? There is no double standard. Edwards preached truth, these other guys don't. It's an open and shut case. Edwards was a sinner, but some of the OT Saints were worst. But Edwards didn't teach Heresy neither did they. So Nah!!!

[eternal]

I wonder what the saved non-slave owners said about JE back then? For example, there are confessing saved preachers and people who disagree with many things John Piper has said and done recently (i.e. unclean language, Remaining in fellowship with unlike yolk) and acknowledge these things as sin, but they are not questioning his salvation. Here is a whole thread where people are debating just about John Piper! http://www.sharperiron.org/showthrea...50&page=1&pp=7

This is just the first example that came to my mind. Sin is Sin and God hates all sin. I would hate for somebody to say I must be a false convert every time I sin because I do it everyday.

It is more about sin as a lifestyle. One can't say, "yes I am a practicing homosexual but David sinned too." Or I can't say that I would hate for someone to judge my sins the same way people judge the sin of an active homosexual. This is a different issue.

As Paul wrote,

1 Timothy 1:9-11

9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Or as we find in Exodus:

Exodus 21:16 "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.

I do not speculate as to whether Edwards is saved or not. But there is clearly the same justification for his condemnation that we often find being tossed at the names mentioned earlier. The thread is about hypocrisy. Why do we protect Edwards but encourage scrutiny of these others?

It makes no sense.

[eternal]

Okay cookie....I haven't missed any point but proven a tremendous point instead.

1 Timothy 1:9-11

9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Now after reading this verse tuff guy, how doesn't all the people I listed not fall into this category as well.

Abraham---- Liar, Adulter, pervert
Lot---- Pervert
Samson---- All the above except slave trader and Parent killer
Solomon----Adulter, pervert
David---- Murder, Pervert, adulter..... Need I say more, Are you saying David didn't teach sound doctrine COOKIE????

So maybe you aren't understanding the gist of the arguement you're making against this man's one sin from above. B/c the saints did a lot worst. But Edwards wasn't on some Heresy like the guys you are listing so maybe you need to re-read what being posed to you. WHY DOES JE GET HARASSED FOR HIS SIN BUT NOT THESE SAINTS? And also.... Joel Osteen, Creflo, and Jakes preach Heresy maybe not to you but to some of us, so can any of these charges be laid against Edwards? There is no double standard. Edwards preached truth, these other guys don't. It's an open and shut case. Edwards was a sinner, but some of the OT Saints were worst. But Edwards didn't teach Heresy neither did they. So Nah!!!

Do you believe there is a difference between a lifestyle of these sins, and simply falling in to them spuraticaly?