Tonex's 1st nterview since Naked Truth

Cruz,

Your last post was beautifully said. When I got saved his cd was the 1st r&b album that I listened to and loved. I'm pulling for the brother and pray he does get restored (trust me I am). But at the same time as people who are in the forefront (in many times pastors even) we really gotta be careful what we say in public. Many people will follow our actions and even take it further. Jerry Bridges quotes an old well known verse in his book "Pursuit Of Holiness"

Sow a thought, reap an act
Sow an act, reap a habit
Sow a habit, reap a character.

I pray that his and our thoughts will be the thoughts of the GOD who saved us. Much love to all and "Run in such a way as to get the prize" 1 Cor 9:24

Wade O, brotha I just thank God for your humble spirit in just reaching out to brotha Tonex. Love your show, I know God has a great work for you fam!! More to come! Bro Tonex is going thru a trial season, it will pass, deff will keep him lifted!

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness

:unsure: Wow... Wade, i'd like to see a copy of the message you sent him invitin him on the show...

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Originally Posted by C-dero

Also, I know, I know, it seems like all I am doing is being critical right?

But check it, it seems like Tonex is saying something when he really is saying nothing deep. It a nutshell, his argument or justification for "nacked Truth" is that since no one is perfect, then lets be imperfect. Since people lust in their hearts, we should therefore lust openly or since the way I feel has me saying some bad stuff in my mind, or picturing something bad, then I need to wear it on my sleeves.

That is bugged thinking? The point is that its sin! Whether I sin in my mind where only God knows it or whether I sin in front of others, the point is that as a Christian, I need to repent from my sin. I need to stop doing that which offends God. So, what makes Tonex public actions any justifiable then his private actions? The difference is that when know one knows, you still have God to deal with and when it goes public, you have a civil duty to correct the situation. If Tonex is correct in what he is saying, then what is the set up of Government for? Is it not to prevent people from acting on their feelings? Yes! Teh Government exist so that Tonex, me, or whoever, will not commit an offense that may have started in our minds. Feel me?

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CrossLamb, you nailed it right here.

People ARE using the excuse of 'real talk' and simply saying whatever's on their mind as an excuse to sin.

But God's commands to be holy and to exhibit godly behavior are not based on how we feel. That's the point a lot of folks have tried to get across to Tonex, even though they may not have said it this way.

People forget - anger is a choice. The same way we can be ticked off at someone one minute, and then chose to stifle and muffle that anger the next minute when we don't wanna appear 'wrathful' in front of someone else, shows that we CAN exhibit some self-control over ourselves and our reactions to things.

Ephesians 4:26 tells believers that there IS a place for anger, but in our anger, DO NOT SIN. That COMMANDMENT OF GOD (not of men) supercedes any catch phrases by M.C. Breed (Ain't no future in your frontin'). The whole 'letting it out' thing is not the biblical way to handle anger. It's actually taken from evolutionary psychology and psychotherapy - not the scriptures. And it's WRONG.

Unlike the non-believer who has a 'bad day' and decides to curse, believers are told that the fruit of the Spirit is SELF-CONTROL AND HOLINESS in Galatians 5. That includes our speech as well as our physical actions.

We already been down the 'it takes deliberate thought to blah blah blah' lane. The brother is obviously and RIGHTLY hurting because people slandered his name. But what he's done by cursing and not being repentant about it and calling it what it is - SIN - is simply made all the people who told lies about him - appear to be telling the truth in some sense. And he can sling all the clichés about 'They ain't stoppin' this' around as much as he likes, they still will not erase the bad reputation that he has garnered for himself here - at least not in the immediate future.

But worse than that, his language - both on the track and also in how he handled himself on the interview - doesn't say humility, doesn't say Christ-likeness, doesn't say repentance..... and worst of all, doesn't say GOD.

Let me make this point. One of Tonex's major gripes here is that people slandered his name, and therefore, he was unable to get work, and more and more things kept goin' bad for him.

And to that, I answer..... SO ? That still doesn't give you the right to 'blow up'. Even if they came in, robbed your house and called you names TO YOUR FACE, that doesn't give you the right to cuss them out, cuss in frustration or revile them for their deeds against you.

Before you jump in and tell me to 'live that', let me tell you something - I have. It's John 13:1-17 and 15:20 all over again. And dealing with some people on this board, it's a lesson I have to KEEP learning and KEEP falling on my face before God about.

The God of the Universe - who alone is worthy of worship and every HIGH honor and word you can ever speak - came down to earth, took on human flesh, humbled Himself and did not respond with cursing and bitterness when men WRONGLY called Him all sorts of names. This is Phil. 2:1-8. We talk a lot about humility, but it's most clearly exemplified HERE. He says that we'll go through these sorts of persecutions, where people speak wrongly of us.

WHO DO WE THINK WE ARE TO THINK THAT WE HAVE THE 'RIGHT' TO 'KEEP IT REAL' ? Christ didn't revile back. Being truly Christlike means you have to DIE to your so-called 'rights' (Luke 9:23-26). Deny yourself. Oh, they keep pressin' me and pressin' me....Imma eventually blow up!

Deny yourself.

If you're truly a child of God, act like it and stop making excuses for your sin.

PERIOD.

Now.....

What the brother needs to do is this - and I know he's probably reading and if I get a break, I'll probably turn this post into a YouTube video....

Repent. Call sin what it is - sin. It's not 'keepin' it real'. The scriptures, in Romans 6 and 7, don't tell the believer to treat sin like it doesn't exist and call that holiness. Rather, it tells believers to reign in sin and gain control over it so that though it does exist, we don't let it control us. So brother, on behalf of all the people prayin' for you, call your sin what it is - SIN. And TURN from it. Turn from this pattern of behavior as a lifestyle, turn from thinking you have to defend yourself by writin' and cussin' about it, just TURN from it. Period.

Turn to Christ. Trust in Him to resolve the situations and the circumstances and to CHANGE YOUR REACTION to the things around you. Psalm 119 is a beautiful Psalm and has (upon several readings) continued to change my life. Spend some time in the book of James looking at the book in context - Christian living. What should a Christian life look like ? Emulate this. 1 John as well.

And I know you struggle, just like we all do, with the urge to blast people who come at you - either personally or 'overall' (as you stated your response was to 'church culture'). But that's not how we're commanded to respond when persecution, lies and wrongdoing come our way. And when those ways that we have set ourselves into come up, don't pass it off as 'seasons'. Season or not, sin is still sin and there's no excuse for it. Don't try to hide it or justify it by saying it's your season.

Sin IS that serious because God's holiness IS that serious. Sin put Christ on the cross. Your 'season' put the Christ you love on the cross. My 'season' put the Christ I love on the cross. My lost temper on HCR put Christ on the cross. ________ 's veiled insults put Christ on the cross. The people who spread lies about you - their sins put Christ on the cross.

It's not a light issue. The start of your interview, you cited the scriptures in part - Without Holiness no one will see God. What the scriptures FULLY say is "Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;" (Hebrews 12:14-15).

Brother, you've been hanging onto a root of bitterness you need to let go. And the more you focus on you, the more you will find your thoughts and life corrupted. I've BEEN THERE. And the writer of Hebrews knows it too - which is why we are commanded to STRIVE FOR holiness - not just peace with everyone.

Make this your prayer today brother. That God change those things in you that need to be changed so that His glory may shine forth and His holiness may be seen in your life.

Know that many are praying for your repentance and return, myself included. Humble yourself and let God exalt you at the right time.

Grace and Peace
KG

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Originally Posted by C-dero

Oh, I don't judge his position with God. I am judging his argument.


About God getting glory from "Naked Truth" God will get the Glory regardless but that is not always a good thing for us. God gets glory from condemning people in hell.




In any case, Peep Tonex and compare it with David's confession. Very different right?


Tonex, if you are reading this, please my brother, David, the Model king, committed adultery. He kept it real by acting out what he felt in his heart. He ended up killing his homey. I believe that his confession is a model of how we should respond to our sins. He was broken before God, not just hurt. You spoke about having a contrite heart and a broken spirit. Please, continue to seek God for forgiveness with the intent to repent from not only our sins, but repent from allowing pain to rule in our hearts. We have all been hurt before, but the purpose for pain, is to built Character, not to destroy it. Your song, "Make Me Over," is a song that we all sing in different ways.

I hope you don't see my comments as an attack on you but on your argument. I am not only communicating to you but also to the board. You know Tonex, you and I and others on here are models of Christian lively-hood. It is scary that there are people that we have mad influence on that will do what we do. I met you waaay back when you was coming up. I don't expect you to remember me. Please b, allow the Lord to absorb your pain for you and allow him to speak for you. One!

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Word.

Ya'll are not listening.. still.

The point of the interview was not about he wrong or he right,
It's about Tonex being restored... bottomline.

Yeah, He said he is wrong for cussing however he knows and realize his sin and wants and desire to be restored...

We should be focused in on praying for Tonex, not only Tonex but others(like Tonex says brothers and sisters thats coming into the kingdom that don't know about reformed, charismatic, pentacostal,etc.. doctrine and frankly don't care) that just want Jesus Christ and to know him in Spirit and in Truth...

As long as we don't discern spiritually the person and stop being so quick to tell people the obvious wrong they doing, and get to the root, we'll be stagnated having a form of Godliness denying the power thereof....


People, The Hoy Spirit is not just in you to put you in the body of Christ. He is what the bible says in John 14:25-26

"These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you."

"But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Don't be so quick to correct and rebuke somebody, listen and bear your brother burdens with them. and when the Spirit gives you the go ahead to speak then speak...

it's not all about who's right and who's wrong.. We gotta mature family.

honest question.....

Based on the public interview, what evidence is there that Tonex has repented?

I really do hope that he does.....I know he is still hurt. I hope that he gets past it. As Cruz mentioned earlier, Cane didn't get past his....and the result was horrible.

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Originally Posted by 4Sight Sounds

honest question.....

Based on the public interview, what evidence is there that Tonex has repented?

I really do hope that he does.....I know he is still hurt. I hope that he gets past it. As Cruz mentioned earlier, Cane didn't get past his....and the result was horrible.

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But who says he hasn't repented for what was done. He said in the interview that he said he was sorry for what was said and he doesn't want anybody else doing it the way he didn't it..

So, would you constitute that as repenting?

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

But who says he hasn't repented for what was done. He said in the interview that he said he was sorry for what was said and he doesn't want anybody else doing it the way he didn't it..

So, would you constitute that as repenting?

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Not trying to start an arguement or anything, but repentance means to turn away from the sin you've been convicted of...

What evidence is there that Tonex, at this point, has turned away from expressing himself the way he did in the song? Not that I need evidence, but for his sake before God...

...once again, I ask in sincerity.... what part of that interview indicated a turning away from his mode of communication in The Naked Truth?

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Originally Posted by Galatians 6

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load.

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Can't argue w/scripture.

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

But who says he hasn't repented for what was done. He said in the interview that he said he was sorry for what was said and he doesn't want anybody else doing it the way he didn't it..

So, would you constitute that as repenting?

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I don't know. Wade asked him if he would do it (the song) again and Tonex thought about and said he would if he was feeling the same way. Repentance isn't saying saying I'm sorry, it's turning away from sin. In a nutshell, it's actually not do it again.

In this respect... I can't judge dude cause there is stuff that I have to stop doing myself. But that in itself does not change the fact that he and I both are sinning.

Be Blessed

To Tonex:

Hey Bro, hopefully one day you'll breeze past this post, man. Just wanted to let you know that I love you, man, and I'm praying for you. I know you'll make it through this. I'm not saying that I agree with everything, but that doesn't mean I still can't care or love you. Nor does it make me any better than you. Above all, I certainly won't allow it to cause me to bad mouth you!

Peep this song of mine called "You're Not Alone." I pray that it encourages you.

http://www.thezeesite.com/audio/yourenotalone.mp3

In Christ,

Your brother Zee

Edit: if you ever want to chop it up, hit me up on my myspace: www.myspace.com/zeemyspace

Props to the fam on this board that have spit biblical truth about how Tonex should have handled himself and should handle himself going forward, but I really wonder if we really listened to him.

Did many of us LISTEN to what our brother was saying. Did we take the time hear his heart before readying a response. I am convinced that listening is a lost ark in these days and times. So many of us almost immediately have a response ready after only hearing a few words of something that someone says to us.

I wonder if we forget that we are human sometimes on HCR and with our humanity subject to different emotions and life challenges. The bible is replete with examples of mankinds fallibility and constant short comings. Our brother cussed yes. Was it right no, but it's what came from the brother after going through a divorce, being sued for a million dollars by his record company, loosing 6 family members one being his father in less than a years time and on top of that being slandered. I wonder if after going through all of this how many scripts would have come out of our mouths at any given moment in time. Tonex clearly knows how he said things were wrong but what he felt was what he felt. Because we are christian now are we do deny our emotions? I say no, but we are admonished to keep them in check; however couple that with us being humans and that equals we aren't going to get it right all the time. He clearly said that what is did is not to advocate others sinning its just what he felt. How many of us have had some prayer times with God where we just let it all hang out. Times where we pull off our masks and become naked and unashamed before God. Truth be told I have had those moments and in those moments I cussed during prayer because what I was going through I didn't know any other way to articulate it. Did God reject me as His child because I cussed while praying? No. He lovingly and gently dealt with me and I repented of how I said things and certain words I have used.

Please fam we can't loose sight of our brother and the pain he is going through. We can't be callous because pain isn't new to the human experience and we all go through it. We have to walk with our brother and restore him. Throwing a bunch of scriptures over a message board right at this moment in my opinion isn't really going to do anything for him. He needs someone to walk with him through this process of pain he is currently going through. Honestly let's ask ourselves this question..........

If someone where to die in your immediately family that you were extremely close to due to some circumstances that were out of their hands to prevent; how would you want someone to react to you in your pain?

I can almost guarantee you during that time just having someone around and their presence being there speaks volumes and can testify of God's love towards you. Sure you can share scripts but you really aren't hearing what is said because of the pain you are going through. Maybe after you have had some time to process the pain will those scriptures come back to rememberance and bring even more comfort to you.

Here is a personal example.

My wife an I were expecting our first and everything was going great. Wifey went in for a checkup and had to be rushed to the hospital because her bloodpressure was in stroke range yet she said she never felt better. I got called to the hospital and what I thought would be an overnight experience turned into almost a week. It wasn't anything the docs hadn't seen before but it was serious nonetheless. Wifey and I were admitted to the high risk pregnancy ward and I am steadly there telling the docs that God would bring us through this, that they were going to see a miracle, etc. That went on for a couple of days.

On the 3rd day I was still telling the docs and the nurses that God was going to bring us through this, etc. Shoot on that 3rd night we shared the gospel with a young lady and led her to the Lord. Everything had seemed to stablize with wifeys blood pressure, fetal heart tone was good and everything. It looked as if my wife was going to be released and I decided to go home for the night after sleeping in the hospital for the past couple of days.

I came back the next morning and went to my wifes room to find and empty bed. I was frantic; where was my wife only to finid out from one of the nurses that during the night they were unable to get a fetal heart tone and that my child was dead. I don't know what emotions rushed through me when I heard that, I just wanted to see my wife. The nurse took me to my wife where she had just taken an ultrasound to confirm my son's death and the first thing that did was hug her and squeeze her and out of no where I said "We are still going to serve God!!". Thats not the end of the story. My wife still had to deliver our child and during the process of the docs giving my wife drugs to induce labor she almost died. At that point I because angry I mean really angry and hurt. The hospital chaplin pulled me in the room and I just started to pour my heart out to her and all of a sudden in the midst of my anger a peace came over me. Litterally the Peace of God that passed all my understanding was covering me like a blanket. Even in the midst of that I was still angry but His peace never left me. It was in moment that I knew everything was going to be ok. And it was later that afternoon as she finally delevired Judah Benonai which meansI praise God for the son of my sorrow.

I learned that day that during the emotional rollercoasters and pain that we go through that God never ever leaves us. That was the first time ever in my life that death walked into my household so close to me. What brought me and my wife through that was ultimately God and friends and family that were there for us and praying for us. They were not spitting scripts AT us but they were embodying scripture with their presence. Truth be told prayer was out the window for me and wifey. Pain was dwelling amoung us. So I say that to say this. If you aren't able to walk with Tonex simply pray for him. Don't discount the power of prayer!!! I pray that God walks with Tonex through this pain and doesn't allow any root of bitterness to take root. Let's stop analyzing dude (we know what sayeth the scripts and he does too) and pray and let also not discount his pain cause its real. As we pray with him and someone is there to walk with Tonex God will restore him no doubt at all.

Tonex I got love for you fam. I know the pain is real. I know the hurt is real, but what is able to supercede our pain is God's ability to bring healing and wholeness to us. He'll do it for you fam. I got ya!! He's got ya!!!!

Links

Lord, we continue to pray for our brother Tonex. Lord, we appeal to your mercy and grace and your victorious power for living! Soak out the bitterness in Tonex's heart. You have told us in your word that bitterness leads to many sins. I pray that he will be delivered from the bitterness that has him under control. I pray that he will walk in the Spirit so that he may not fulfill the deeds of the flesh! Allow him to know that outside of your will and ways, its a dog eat dog world. Lord, our post-garden experience has shown us that a world that subtracts you out of any aspect of life is a world of judgementalism, selfishness, pride, abuse, sorrow, hopelessness, unhappiness, and it hurts that at times these fruits of sin can be found within the body of Christ. We prey lord for healing, spiritual healing! Emotional healing! Mental healing! We also pray that you will chastise your son for the bitterness that he is bowing to. We pray for restorative discipline otherwise he will be consumed by anger and loose his soul! I pray that someone will come his way over there in Cali to listen to him, love him, but to also be stern and sharp with words that cut like a surgical knife with aim to bring healing!


Thank you for hearing our prayers!

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Originally Posted by C-dero

Lord, we continue to pray for our brother Tonex. Lord, we appeal to your mercy and grace and your victorious power for living! Soak out the bitterness in Tonex's heart. You have told us in your word that bitterness leads to many sins. I pray that he will be delivered from the bitterness that has him under control. I pray that he will walk in the Spirit so that he may not fulfill the deeds of the flesh! Allow him to know that outside of your will and ways, its a dog eat dog world. Lord, our post-garden experience has shown us that a world that subtracts you out of any aspect of life is a world of judgementalism, selfishness, pride, abuse, sorrow, hopelessness, unhappiness, and it hurts that at times these fruits of sin can be found within the body of Christ. We prey lord for healing, spiritual healing! Emotional healing! Mental healing! We also pray that you will chastise your son for the bitterness that he is bowing to. We pray for restorative discipline otherwise he will be consumed by anger and loose his soul! I pray that someone will come his way over there in Cali to listen to him, love him, but to also be stern and sharp with words that cut like a surgical knife with aim to bring healing!


Thank you for hearing our prayers!

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Amen!!

A yo, in this interview Tonex reminded me of our brother Pchild (what up, P, I got love for you bro!).. that whenever he post some controversial stuff everybody starts throwin' rocks at him, instead of keep him uplifted in prayer..

Yo, should we tell cats that are criticizin' Tonex to listen to the interview?... or will it only add fuel to the fire??

God bless you

--Chema

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Originally Posted by CHEMAelMC

Yo, should we tell cats that are criticizin' Tonex to listen to the interview?... or will it only add fuel to the fire??

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Let be. God will see to it that everything will unfold as it should.

Human interference will only hinder the process.

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Originally Posted by C-dero

Also, I know, I know, it seems like all I am doing is being critical right?

But check it, it seems like Tonex is saying something when he really is saying nothing deep. It a nutshell, his argument or justification for "nacked Truth" is that since no one is perfect, then lets be imperfect. Since people lust in their hearts, we should therefore lust openly or since the way I feel has me saying some bad stuff in my mind, or picturing something bad, then I need to wear it on my sleeves.

That is bugged thinking? The point is that its sin! Whether I sin in my mind where only God knows it or whether I sin in front of others, the point is that as a Christian, I need to repent from my sin. I need to stop doing that which offends God. So, what makes Tonex public actions any justifiable then his private actions? The difference is that when know one knows, you still have God to deal with and when it goes public, you have a civil duty to correct the situation. If Tonex is correct in what he is saying, then what is the set up of Government for? Is it not to prevent people from acting on their feelings? Yes! Teh Government exist so that Tonex, me, or whoever, will not commit an offense that may have started in our minds. Feel me?

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Tonex obviously snapped. When we snap as humans we sometimes justify the unjustifiable in the midst of our anger and in his case bitterness. "I don't care", "you think I don't know that, I'm human what do you expect". I'm sure we've all said something similar to those examples if not any of those exactly. Even after becoming a member of the body of Christ. I heard tonex in one breathe say he shouldn't have expressed himself in that way (let's be real he's also said it through his actions: the song isn't up anymore so obviously there's some conviction in the consciense) and then he says if he had a chance to do it over again he'd do it the same way if he felt that way. Of course the thing is he doesn't need to feel that way which is and was bitter. Alot of times when we are bitter our emotions are all over the place, we are unsure of alot of things, we are confused.


I truly believe Tonex believes he is wrong and knew he was wrong while he was cursing on Wade-O's interview yet was still doing it. Why? Bitterness doesn't care. And guess what? He knows he's bitter, that's the great part. I took from what he said he know's he needs to deal with it and is dealing with it. As he kept saying "real talk": Tonex knows he's wrong in becoming bitter, acting out on the bitterness (which is a hard thing not to do, if you've never been bitter before you don't understand), getting on Wade-O show and cursing and carrying on at certain points of the interview the way he did (Romans 7) He acknowledges the conflict, I don't take it that he feels comfortable in his sin at all. I take from his interview he knows he needs rebuke, has recieved some and is taking heed to it.

I do believe he is a broken fountain and needs to be healed to the point he is able to yield his tongue to Gods Spirit. I believe God could be teaching the Church a lesson through this also (view thread:How christ like would you look to yourself if.....etc)



Cruz you took it that Tonex was saying "Since no one is perfect lets be imperfect". Almost in a I don't care how I'm percieved attitude. Real question no sarcasm: Do you really think he believes he shouldn't care in the context of representing Christ how he is percieved? I truly believe he does, just keep in mind as of that interview he was speaking and seeing through the heart of bitterness and bitterness has a I don't give a ..... way about it. He says he needs resoratation impying he doesn't want to stay bitter meaning he knows it wrong and therefore wrong to be acting like I don't give a right now.


I personally believe Tonex was saying "I got issues, aint no need in me fronting, yet I know I need to be and am seeking God to purge me of these issues.


One of my favorite scriptures is in St.John Chapter 15:2


Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

This scripture says we are beneficial and can be productive to the body while acknowledging the fact that we live a state indicated in Romans 7 at times. You don't have to purge nothing that is unclean. Yet God says we are in him while needing purging.

I know I had some things to say about Tonex on here as well and I haven't had a chance to listen to the interview yet, but I know the scripture below applies:

2 Corinthians 10:5
4For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God for the pulling down of strongholds,


5casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ,

As Christians we are supposed to be fighting to cast down wrong thoughts and bring them in obedience to Christ, not blurt them out there.

Tonex has always been one of my favorites, but man it's scary when people won't adhere to scriptures and then say that people were cursing him with scriptures? Doesn't scriptures warn us about not hearing reproof?

Proverbs 12:1
Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Proverbs 15:10
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.

As for myself, the only way for me to really change is when someone shows me a scripture (that isn't being twisted) that points out an error I may be making. It doesn't even matter to me how they say it. I may not like it at the time, but will accept it in the end because I'm hungry for truth, not my own way.

I am praying for Tonex because restoration is always the best thing when things like this happen.

I can say that this is actually one of the most constructive 'controversy' threads I've ever seen on HCR.

And yes, I do recommend people listen to the interview BEFORE commenting. Not because it's necessary, but it will give you a broader perspective on how to approach the situation.

....carry on.....

all i'm gonna say is we need to love the man and restore him and that goes beyond just praying ....

Wow....I aint been on since I posted the link last night and I have to agree with BC, this really has been one of the better threads I have seen on HCR.

Bond Servant, to answer your question. Acknowledging the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is important to me. Prior to the interview did I tihnk it was a good question to ask Tonex? Yes. During the interview, did I think it would have added value to the interview? No. Thats why I didn't ask him. He articulated his beliefs and honestly I felt asking him about does he belief in the trinity would have started going down the path of theological discussion, which is not what I was shooting for. My Suggestion...if you really want to have that discussion with him...hit on myspace. www.myspace.com/tonexworld. He gets a ton of email so I cant promise he will reply to you, but its worth a shot.

Click Here

Sorry I didnt post this earlier

Wade, since this one's actually ending on a good note, would you mind terribly if I closed it ? I don't think much more can be added than has already been said.

I'll wait for your answer.

Lord, we continue to pray for repentance from one of your hurting sons. I pray that his anger will turn into faith, love, and hope. Allow him to know that we have been called to a uneasy life, a life that continuously should have us looking forward to the consummation of your Kingdom. Father, we are kingdom kids living in a different kingdom, a kingdom that is lofty and haughty but that has no future. I pray that Tonex will recognize that all of the decrees of this world will be rendered unsuccessful and that your eternal decree, your word, will last for eternity. Expunge the anger and bitterness in his heart so that he may be saved from darkness and brought into eternal light. As sons and daughters of your Kingdom, we should expect to be thrown in the fiery furnace at times but allow it to be for righteousness sake knowing that you will be with us through the fire. Please, do not treat Tonex according to his sins, but I pray that your patience and mercy will lead him to repentance. Restore his soul Lord!

In the name of Christ Jesus!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dogfight!

Can't argue w/scripture.

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For a person to be restored, they must be a brother to begin with. Nothing about the song, this interview or anything else I've seen or heard from Tonex indicates that he's been born again. I'm not trying to be super-critical, but he seems like he's trying so hard to justify his sin rather than repent of it.

He continues to curse openly and blatantly throughout the entire interview. I'm sorry, but that's just not in agreement with the Spirit of God living within a believer. Peep what God said about those He would regenerate:

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. Ezekiel 36:22-27

The thing is, Tonex continues to profane the name of the Lord among the heathen. We are to be representatives of God in the earth as His image bearers. If we have foul mouths, we show the world that it must be okay for us to be that way. God must not care too much if He allows us to be His children and have foul mouths and nonchalant attitudes about our sin.

Some may want to stone me, but I don't believe from what I've heard, that Tonex is a brother. Everyone's talking about restoration, but I think we'd be foolish and doing a disservice to Tonex if we didn't consider his salvation.

When looking at this issue I only had the Oneness view in mind. I wasn't even looking at the fact that he was going through hard times.

He went through a divorce and that alone can make a person depressed for months. He may of gone through some other hard times as well. So maybe reaching out to dude for the hurt and pain of life in general is needed.


As a person he needs help. I don't agree with the theology I thought he believed in and I disagree with his choice of fellowship, but as a person the man is truely in need of some help.


And he needs to be helped.





INLOVE Jnorm

Tonex is still made in God's Image so I need to love him anyway. Even when it is hard to because of what I believe to be true and right.

God still wants us to love, and I will try to do that even when I don't understand nor want to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Expositor

For a person to be restored, they must be a brother to begin with. Nothing about the song, this interview or anything else I've seen or heard from Tonex indicates that he's been born again. I'm not trying to be super-critical, but he seems like he's trying so hard to justify his sin rather than repent of it.

He continues to curse openly and blatantly throughout the entire interview. I'm sorry, but that's just not in agreement with the Spirit of God living within a believer. Peep what God said about those He would regenerate:

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. Ezekiel 36:22-27

The thing is, Tonex continues to profane the name of the Lord among the heathen. We are to be representatives of God in the earth as His image bearers. If we have foul mouths, we show the world that it must be okay for us to be that way. God must not care too much if He allows us to be His children and have foul mouths and nonchalant attitudes about our sin.

Some may want to stone me, but I don't believe from what I've heard, that Tonex is a brother. Everyone's talking about restoration, but I think we'd be foolish and doing a disservice to Tonex if we didn't consider his salvation.

---

I agree with you on this. After listening to the interview, he needs salvation. Sounds like he's been just a "church person" since ProNounced TonNay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Expositor

For a person to be restored, they must be a brother to begin with. Nothing about the song, this interview or anything else I've seen or heard from Tonex indicates that he's been born again. I'm not trying to be super-critical, but he seems like he's trying so hard to justify his sin rather than repent of it.

He continues to curse openly and blatantly throughout the entire interview. I'm sorry, but that's just not in agreement with the Spirit of God living within a believer. Peep what God said about those He would regenerate:

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. Ezekiel 36:22-27

The thing is, Tonex continues to profane the name of the Lord among the heathen. We are to be representatives of God in the earth as His image bearers. If we have foul mouths, we show the world that it must be okay for us to be that way. God must not care too much if He allows us to be His children and have foul mouths and nonchalant attitudes about our sin.

Some may want to stone me, but I don't believe from what I've heard, that Tonex is a brother. Everyone's talking about restoration, but I think we'd be foolish and doing a disservice to Tonex if we didn't consider his salvation.

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Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....

---

In the words of the great 20th century philosopher Paris Hilton....

"That's Hot":jiggy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....

---

I'm not here to argue you with you bro, but I believe I am discerning spiritually, through the Word of God. I am not basing it upon "feelings" or "emotions" for another human being. You said that I am hung up with outward symptoms and not the root problem. With that, I don't think you really read my post.

I am concerned with the root problem. That root problem is sin. It's not that he was touched by a preacher when he was six years old. It's not about G Craige Lewis. It's not about anyone else but Tonex's own sin, and until he stops blaming everyone else for the sin that HE commits, what can a person do? The outward symptoms are an expression of the inner man. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

It's not simply about saying you're sorry for what you've said or done. It's about truly being sorry and then STOPPING your constant sin. He said that he knows the Scripture but doesn't want to hear it when folks bring it to him. He admits that he knew the Scripture beforehand and STILL decided to do it.

It's not about being self-righteous at all. It's about showing REAL concern for another soul, who was created in the image of God. If we say that we love a blind man, yet we see him walking dangerously close to the edge of a cliff and we don't yell out to him that he's going to perish if he continues going, then we don't really love him at all.

I am praying for Tonex. I am praying for those who follow him and feel the same way as well. But most of all, I am praying that he would turn to the Lord is true repentance, which will bring forth real fruit meet with repentance, and then glorify God as He should be glorified. God is not glorified in anything he's currently doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Expositor

I'm not here to argue you with you bro, but I believe I am discerning spiritually, through the Word of God. I am not basing it upon "feelings" or "emotions" for another human being. You said that I am hung up with outward symptoms and not the root problem. With that, I don't think you really read my post.

I am concerned with the root problem. That root problem is sin. It's not that he was touched by a preacher when he was six years old. It's not about G Craige Lewis. It's not about anyone else but Tonex's own sin, and until he stops blaming everyone else for the sin that HE commits, what can a person do? The outward symptoms are an expression of the inner man. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

It's not simply about saying you're sorry for what you've said or done. It's about truly being sorry and then STOPPING your constant sin. He said that he knows the Scripture but doesn't want to hear it when folks bring it to him. He admits that he knew the Scripture beforehand and STILL decided to do it.

It's not about being self-righteous at all. It's about showing REAL concern for another soul, who was created in the image of God. If we say that we love a blind man, yet we see him walking dangerously close to the edge of a cliff and we don't yell out to him that he's going to perish if he continues going, then we don't really love him at all.

praying for Tonex. I am praying for those who follow him and feel the same way as well. But most of all, I am praying that he would turn to the Lord is true repentance, which will bring forth real fruit meet with repentance, and then glorify God as He should be glorified. God is not glorified in anything he's I am currently doing.

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I agree 100% with what you said, and i think most people on this board will agree with you. I dont think there's anyone on here who is agreeing with Tonex's actions. From listening to the interview to me it seems as though dude was not trying to defend his sin, but the reason he was sinning. The guy has been through so much to me it sounds like he's at his breaking point, and he wanted to release everything inside of him. But one thing I do know is that God still loves him. I can tell from the fact that all these people are concerned for him, even cats that may not necessarily be fans of his music. I cant say if dude is saved or not, judgement belongs to God.
I mean look at david, as a king he commited adultary and than had her husband killed in battle. I'm sure if his story ended right there many of us would question if david was truly a man after God's own heart. But God gave him a chance to repent and earn forgiveness from him. So i say lets pray that God gives Tonex a chance to earn repentance, and renew his relationship with God.

Actually Kingsman, it's still on a good note.

Re-read what Expo is saying. The Bible approaches issues of behavior not as a matter of 'some hurt we've experienced' (which is psychology and unbiblical), but as a matter of what originates from within us that defiles us (Matthew 15:15-20). Pain, hurt, etc... are no excuse for his behavior. Period. That's scripture. 1 John 3:1-10 and Galatians 5 don't have exception clauses for 'having a bad day'.

What is needed is biblical repentance. Godly sorrow leads to repentance (David ala Psalm 51) and salvation. Worldly sorrow (Judas) makes one feel sorry for their sin or the results of their sin, but doesn't take care of turning them away from doing it or other sin again.

So while Tonex might be feeling a bit of worldly sorrow over the reaction saints have given him for his language, he's not feeling godly sorrow - at least he wasn't as of the interview with Wade because he kept cursing like it was no thing.

So you can spend time focused on his pain all you'd like. But the issue at hand - the FIRST issue at hand - is how he reacts to it. Job lost a lot more than he did, but the scriptures tell us that Job did NOT sin with his lips during that whole time (Job 1-2). Instead, he reacted to the tradgedy in his life with praise and worship to God. Even when his wife told him to curse God and die, he, with sores covering his body, did not.

So Expo has actually brought some additional BIBLICAL wisdom to this discussion that I think you haven't really taken into consideration.

My observation.

Grace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Expositor

It's not about being self-righteous at all. It's about showing REAL concern for another soul, who was created in the image of God. If we say that we love a blind man, yet we see him walking dangerously close to the edge of a cliff and we don't yell out to him that he's going to perish if he continues going, then we don't really love him at all.

I am praying for Tonex. I am praying for those who follow him and feel the same way as well. But most of all, I am praying that he would turn to the Lord is true repentance, which will bring forth real fruit meet with repentance, and then glorify God as He should be glorified. God is not glorified in anything he's currently doing.

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....I was starting to think I was losing my mind, 'til I read this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity... i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.

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Whether or not he believes in the Trinity?!?!?!?

I'm gonna start fellowshipping with satanists then.


*walks out of thread mumbling to himself*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

Well BC, So much for ending on a good note....

Expo, your not discerning spiritually, bro. you still hung up on outwardly symptoms of the inner root of Tonex's issue.

even if you don't see him as a brother, he is still made in God's image. whether you believe he is your brother or not, that shouldn't prevent you from showing love to him, praying for him, and bearing his brudens with him...

Sometimes, instead of being the good samaritian, we act more like the Priest and the Levite!!

Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity, whether or not he repented about cussing or whatever, i'm going to still look not so much at his outward actions but to his heart's cry and pray that God sends someone to him where he is to personally minister and aid Tonex thru his time of brokenness because there is more that we evidently don't know is going on with him and we can't get self-righteous and wash our hands with him.. thats not being Christ-like.


We can't spread the Gospel if we won't be the Gospel to those who need it most....

---

How is washing our hands of someone not being Christ-like?

Bro, I'm gonna have to agree with Ex on this one. Ex is not being self righteous according to the Bible. The mentality you have towards this situation is considered "puffed up" or "proud" according to the Word. I pray that many that share your point of view stop being manipulated through their emotions and start allowing the Word to dictate to you the stance to take in certain situaitons.

Here's scripture:

1 Corinthians 5:1-2
1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.


Now I know many try to ignore verse 2, but Paul was calling the church proud because they didn't mourn because of what this person did and wanted the person removed from the church. Of course the goal is repentance, AND NOT HIS DEMISE, but in many cases true repentance won't happen without some form of discipline going forth first.

Do you want to see what else your mentality is leading you to be guilty of?

Proverbs 17:15
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

You are sitting there typing that it doesn't matter that Tonex didn't sincerely repent of his actions? That means you are justifying his wickedness and that mentality is an abomination to God! You say you are looking at his heart, well Jesus said out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. What's been coming of his mouth? Cursing, bitterness and pain!! Why? Because he hasn't been real with God in private. He hadn't truly given his heart to Jesus.

Tonex is not only a singer, he is also a pastor A LEADER IN THE BODY! You are completely ignoring the tremendous influence this guy has on hundreds of thousands of people and how he doesn't even seem to care. He didn't seem one bit interested in shouldering the responsibility he has of leading those he has influenced. Rather than being like Paul and saying, "follow me as I follow Christ", he pulled a Stacie Orrico "Don't look at me, look at Him".

You can't handle a leader in the church the same as someone who isn't. And if an unbeliever gets to be a leader in the church, that should be an embarrasment to the church!

So now I pose the question to you that Paul posed to the church in Corinth.

Are you proud and not rather mourned that the man who has done these things should be taken away from us?

Selah.

BC...my opinion keep it open bro. You close threads when they get bad. You shouldn't close them when they get good. Even with what Expo, Rob and others have added, its good convo. As believers, even when we don't agree, we should look at all sides of teh situation, becsause we just might learn something.

This will not be the last time that any of us encounter a situation like this. It may not be as public as Tonex, but still. I do hope this is able to be a learning experience for all of us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingsman2ki

Look, whether or not Tonex believes in the trinity,

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WHOAH SON! I ain't see this before.

If he doesn't believe in the Trinity, he's not a Christian.

Period.

There is no other God in the Bible but the Triune God (Isaiah 48:12-16). Believe in any other concept of God, you believe in an IDOL.

Further, there is no GOSPEL without the Trinity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kerry1914

Further, there is no GOSPEL without the Trinity.

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Nope, no salvation without it.

Eph. 1:3-14

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BondServant

Nope, no salvation without it.

Eph. 1:3-14

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True, but you can still love him as a person. The dude is in need of help, so hate the sin but love the sinner.







Inlove jnorm

You don't have to call him a christian in order to feel for him.