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  1. #141
    Young Bol
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    Sep 2011
    Columbus, Ohio, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by caleb4life View Post
    Actually, I don't claim to have truly conducted experiments. Only personal observations. But I am open to considering/accepting experiments of others. For example, I did investigate the Mick West experiments, etc., along with some who claimed to have debunked his work. Interesting stuff on both sides!
    That's what an "observation" is. When you do an experiment, you are "observing" something and drawing a conclusion. And, no, you are not open to accepting the experiments of others - you openly say you don't believe the people at NASA. Even when I tell you that I personally know lots of people who work/have worked there you say, "Well, they aren't high enough to know the 'real truth,'" which is ironic because you're asking others to believe in a conspiracy that you haven't actually personally observed. You just have "faith" that the global worldwide conspiracy is true and you don't accept any evidence that contradicts that. It's the definition of intellectual dishonesty.

    I do believe my doctors at times, and have entrusted myself and precious family members to their care my whole life. Even so, I have grown more cautious in accepting some things they say, without doing at least some research/reading on my own. I know many dearly beloved pastors that I believe are telling me the truth from their perspective. I have enjoyed growing with them as living stones through the years, under the Headship of Christ Jesus! Though I desire to test everything, and hold fast to that which is good, I do believe much of what authors have written on a variety of topics. Depending on the author and the book, as I test it in the Spirit, some content I believe, and other content, not so much.
    So, like I said, you are just going on faith and not personal observation. You cut all of these professions slack and trust them, but since you think NASA (and most of the world's governments and all of the astronauts who have gone to space) are lying (without any evidence), you refuse to give them any trust.

    What I am saying is that my personal observations suggest a geocentric, stationary, plane earth cosmology.
    But you act like this is an innocent proclamation. It's far from that. You didn't personally observe a geocentric, stationary, plane earth cosmology - someone else did and then convinced you it was true and you went outside and looked up at the North Star and said, "Well, I guess since it looks like the North Star is stationary (it actually isn't), the earth must be flat!" The people who came up with a round earth thousands of years ago didn't have any stake in a global worldwide conspiracy. This isn't a NASA invention. They actually used their own non-biased personal experience and came to that conclusion. If all science reset today - we would come up with that conclusion again because of math, and science, and physics, and geology, etc. If Mark Sargent never (wrongly) thought that planes didn't pass over the southern hemisphere, you would still believe in a round earth.

    I also believe that the Bible supports such a cosmology (I believe the Biblical testimony by faith that the inspired authors told the truth, and that God's word is faithful and true).
    This is also a new belief for you. You didn't believe this when you were younger. Your pastor didn't teach you this (unless he did - I thought I remember you telling me you found this kind of thinking online - correct me if I'm wrong). I believe that if you hadn't come across people like Mark Sargent (or Kyrie Irving) online that you wouldn't even believe that the Bible taught this. No major theologian thinks the bible is trying to support this cosmology, but, since you believe there is a worldwide conspiracy, then it informs how you read the bible.

    Do you see what I'm saying here? You didn't come to this by your own personal observation. You came to this from a couple of people you read online and then you decided to throw out all modern math and science and faith disciplines and tied yourself this false idea.

    What I contend is that your belief in a globe that spins, on an orbit in the middle of a solar system that is also spinning, is something that you believe by faith (testimony of others). It cannot be proven by you or me.
    I don't take their word for it. I believe their "testimonies" because they provided evidence that proves it. If it wasn't true, they would provide evidence that disproves a round earth and then I would believe that. I don't have any stake in whether or not the earth is round or flat. If it's flat, nothing changes for me! So, if it's flat, I want to know! And, so do all of the other scientists in the world whose research depends on the shape of the earth (and any other thing that scientists have figured out). All these satellite and private space companies' research depends on whether or not a round earth is true. If it's not, then their work is pointless!

    Likewise, I cannot "prove" all the details of the flat earth. There is just no way.
    There is a way - you just refuse to accept it because it contradicts with what you believe - by faith, and not personal observation.

  2. #142
    Young Bol
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Thanked 42 Times in 9 Posts


    Good morning dear brother Nathan! Thanks again for replying.

    You didn't personally observe a geocentric, stationary, plane earth cosmology
    What I mean when I say "personal observation" of water for example, is simply all the times that I have observed water being consistently level from my vantage point, which is admittedly confined to only as high as seeing it from the ground, and at various heights, all the way up to from an airplane.

    When it comes to the stationary aspect, my personal observation is that the sun, moon and stars move (with the north star not moving as much as other stars), and that the earth is firmly fixed and shall not move (I don't feel like the earth is moving). All I'm saying is that without anyone telling me anything (on either side), that is what I observe. Now, what the reality is, versus my observations, that's what I do not fully know, and I choose to believe the Bible, rather than NASA.

    This is also a new belief for you.
    Correct. Growing up I had unanswered questions in my mind about how various Biblical accounts (i.e. flood, sun standing still) could work in the cosmology that I was taught in school, but I dismissed those nagging questions, rather than explore them at the time.

    You didn't come to this by your own personal observation.
    Correct, not initially. I stumbled across it, watching that Mark Sargent video, and then immediately (same day) I sought the Lord in prayer and in the Bible and came away with a tremendous peace and clear conscience to pursue researching things further, because it stood up with what I was seeing in the Scriptures, with the help of the Holy Spirit. The whole exercise, to this day, has deepened my appreciation for the Bible, and unleashed a new found awe of His creation, which has resulted in increased worship! To God be the Glory!

    Much love to you!

  3. #143
    HCR Ole' Head The Light Within's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
    Western Canada in an igloo (with central heating).
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    How the power lines at Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana, USA simply and clearly show the curvature of the Earth

    The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / Datin

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