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  1. #261
    HCR Ole' Head eternal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Roldan View Post
    Dude your impossible smh
    stop playing victim you whiner!

  2. #262
    HCR Familia Ricky Roldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal View Post
    stop playing victim you whiner!
    Hehe

  3. #263
    HCR Ole' Head BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal View Post
    If I can quote an unanswered question, will you buy me the new trip lee cd?
    Probably not, but quote it anyway.
    STILL BLACK :: STILL REFORMED :: STILL AROUND
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  4. #264
    HCR Ole' Head eternal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCalvinist View Post
    Probably not, but quote it anyway.
    lol @ probably not.

    Anyways, not looking for a non issue back and forth with you. I'd prefer to stay on substance.

    But my point was directed towards my back and forth with Seal. Rick responded to it, and the comment you cited was in reference to that back and forth with seal. He has a habit, of jumping to conclusions and mischaracterizing people's position to absurdity. This is not anything new. Most people chalk it up to "seal being seal."

    Here are some examples:

    http://forum.holyculture.net/showthr...l=1#post691700

    I don't believe the things he said there, but he put it in a way to make it look stupid. Something I don't even believe, yet he attributed it to me.

    http://forum.holyculture.net/showthr...l=1#post691737

    Here is where he tells me I am in denial on what I believe, and that he knows what I believe because he has studied OTHER PEOPLE (lol) for 6 years. I tell him I want him to deal with what I say I believe, and his response is that he doesn't have to because I am in denial and he has already studied OTHER people.

    Rick quoted me talking to Seal about this. What you quoted was me referring back to this.

    It shouldn't become the new topic of the thread, but it is fair enough to state when someone is misrepresenting your view. You and others have made similar comments when people have mischaracterized Calvinism...in fact maybe even a bit more harshly even.

    Anyways, I welcome your interaction, but I would think there is much better stuff to do that with, than digging this up to call me a whiner and a victim player, don't you?

    We too grown for this bro. Enjoy your weekend fam.
    Last edited by eternal; 05-05-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  5. #265
    HCR Ole' Head BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    So....still looking for the unanswered question, not the rehash of history.
    STILL BLACK :: STILL REFORMED :: STILL AROUND
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  6. #266
    HCR Ole' Head eternal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCalvinist View Post
    So....still looking for the unanswered question, not the rehash of history.
    No prob. You got Tripp on it?

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCalvinist View Post
    So....still looking for the unanswered question, not the rehash of history.
    Let your yes be yes and prove your case.
    STILL BLACK :: STILL REFORMED :: STILL AROUND
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  8. #268
    HCR Ole' Head eternal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCalvinist View Post


    Let your yes be yes and prove your case.
    A bit of misappropriation, but sure. If I was to just let my yes be yes, I wouldn't let myself put on trial and justify and prove my yes I mean by the same merit I could commend your yes to be yes and prove your case by citing every one of my questions posed throughout the course of this thread and paste the corresponding answer.

    But anyways, I just hope I am not guilty of other sins in respects to petty arguments that go nowhere...

    Here is one: The question is in regards to knowing the Spirit’s will on what the cannon is:

    A couple examples:

    http://forum.holyculture.net/showthr...l=1#post690333

    Quote Originally Posted by ”eternal”
    I asked you (I think?) about the matter of canon, because that is not contained in scripture. So our presupp MUST extend beyond what is written, and to what is revealed by God. And what is revealed by God then points to His written word as the written word.

    We can say I reject the Muratorian Canon cannon because I accept the Protestant 66. So someone may presuppose the Muratorian is correct. The next fellow presupposes the Carthage. Neither is proving the other wrong. They simply both attest to the truthfulness of their cannon. My question then, for my understanding, do we just leave it at that? How can we attest to which cannon is correct, or do we simply presuppose and leave it at that, and shrug our shoulders that groups of Christians disagree? There is nothing in scripture to affirm one over the other. Or am I wrong?
    And

    http://forum.holyculture.net/showthr...l=1#post690165

    I said

    Quote Originally Posted by ”eternal”
    Whose experience of the Holy Spirit is right? Is it testified to by the Holy Spirit? Clearly God will never contradict Himself, so some people are wrong in their claim. Yet, we remain with one person feels led by the Holy Spirit to exclude Esther or Jude, etc...while another feels led by the Holy Spirit to include the Maccabees. While still another sees the 66 books of the Protestant, to be approved by the Holy Spirit.
    And

    Quote Originally Posted by ”eternal”
    1) How do we determine whose presupposition is correct? All claim the witness of the Holy Spirit, yet obviously all cannot be correct without making God into a liar. How does presuppositional apologetics deal with this? Does it just affirm its own truthfulness, taking for granted that they may be the one who discerned the Spirit wrongly, waiting for the Lord to change their mind? How does the presupper manage their own fallibility in discerning the Holy Spirit?

    2) Isn't the axiom of the presuppositionalist, at its root, a dependence upon an experience, and the individuals proper interpretation of it? How then does that make it any different from what has been deemed "untrustworthy?"
    And

    http://forum.holyculture.net/showthr...l=1#post690259

    Quote Originally Posted by ”eternal”
    Jason says they "may be moved" to accept the 66 books of the Protestant Cannon for this or that reason. But really it is because the Holy Spirit has affirmed them in our hearts. My question then goes to how does the presupp address the falability of man, in the capability of man to misdiscern the Holy Spirit?
    That last part there sums it up well. If the Spirit reveals to us the cannon, and many different Christians throughout history have disagreed on the cannon, how do we deal with that? Or as I put it, how does the presupp address the falability of man, in the capability of man to misdiscern the Holy Spirit?

    As you can see, this is a train of thought I have brought up repeatedly, to no avail. And that is understandable, because in a thread like this, there is so much going on, it’s tough to thoroughly get into every question. And I don’t begrudge that at all. I only point it out specifically because you claimed I was whining and playing victim for saying I have some unanswered questions.

    Another train of thought I have pursued in this thread, and I don’t think has gotten adequate treatment is summed up below:

    http://forum.holyculture.net/showthr...l=1#post691822

    Quote Originally Posted by ”eternal”
    In scripture we find appeals to the power of God as evidence for the truthfulness of His claims. The Exodus account was one such event. The repeatedly stated message of that event was the nations now ought realize the power of God, and that the God of Israel was the one true God. This is Empiricism. And the enemies of Israel quacked in their boots upon their arrival into Canaan because they had heard of His majestic deliverance.

    The witnesses of this event passed it down to the next generation, telling them of these spectacular events, using empirical witness to testify of God's grandeur and reality. Empiricism. Certainly this isn't entirely unbiblical and unfounded?

    So Neb, there has been no appeal to any kind of fatalistic endeavor. Rather it is an appreciation that a presupposition of scriptures truthfulness and authority will afford a variety of approaches to appeal to that authority.
    I have tried to inquire about this in respects to transformation, God’s power at work in us, ongoing sanctification and the witness it bears. We know that God reveals Himself through visions and coordinates experiences to reveal Himself and dawn on people.

    None of this is in contrast to scripture, but on the basis of scripture, in accordance with scripture, and rightly understood by scripture.

    I don’t deny scripture. I presuppose just like you do. But I am trying to figure out why there is such a quick pull away from these things I see that even the bible itself presents its figures endeavoring in. Elijiah vs. the prophets of Baal. That was an apologetic that straight opposes the sort of exclusivity that some are proposing here.

    This is a train of thought I have presented many times, all of these examples cited here in this thread, and I’d like to understand how a presupper deals with them.

    I think Neb will do a fantastic job if he has the time to get to it. He is articulate, thorough, and very knowledgeable on the subject. Others seem to simply roll these things up into one liners that mock instead of inform.

    That was the complaint.

    So now, can we just let this part of it all just die now? The thread is not about whether I had every question answered, or if I have the right to say I didn’t. That is silly.

    But the two points of inquiry I established here are decent ground to understand how the presupper undertakes apologetics in the way they do.
    Last edited by eternal; 05-05-2012 at 07:07 PM.

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