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  1. #1
    HCR Ole' Head Ras's Avatar
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    Default Da Truth apology letter

    Apology Letter
    What are your thoughts on the letter? And before yall say "pray for them". I have been praying for Da Truth for years.

    Obviously, if you're familar with my postings and you don't want to read blunt OPINIONS, read no further. This is not a "pray for him" posting.

    1st my thoughts on Da Truth. I've always been a fan of his music depite what some might think. Just because I criticize, don't mean I don't like you. I'm just blunt in what I like and don't like..

    Now, from a Christian rap stand point, (imo) he was the Jay Z of CHH. Meaning, as far as units go, he was 1 of few East Coast rappers in this day and time (or any) that still could push units. And that's a no dis to Everyday Process, R-Swift, Rhyme Counsel types.

    He transcended the genre because he was actually breaking barriers as far as the Black church and CHH. (For example, performing on the Stellars. Kirk Franklin tour and album). Something that "Da King" of CHH (my opinion) Lecrae isn't doing on that scale. Because Crae has a different lane. (but that's another thread). On TBN. Viktory's tour. So he has accomplished a lot.

    But despite all of that, his moral indescetion is just plain irony. A man whose ministry and message was built upon integrity. I mean listen to the album "Open Book"!! Oh, the irony. Listen to "Who Am I?" Is he going to be a hero in the faith? Or a picture of what NOT to be like. Like people in the Bible (and before yall think I'm being too hard, these are HIS WORDS).

    Listen to Click (No Regrets). A wise man learns from other men's errors. He saw what happens when moral indescretion happens. In his "father in the faith" case (Duce), it was adultery. And he saw the results. And as a supporter, it's like, why not learn from that what happens when you commit moral indescretion?

    That's what makes this so hard to accept. He was a personal rapper. It's not like he just preached Christ and I can just enjoy the biblical truths. Who he was (similar to Paul) was mixed in with the Gospel.

    Now, as far as the meat of letter, I don't know how biblically we can collective forgive him? So help me out. Since that's what he's asking his supporter to do. It's not clear in what he did (though I know what he did. Some of his supporters don't.)" A "moral indescretion in his PERSONAL life"? That sounds like some a political press secretary would say. Can we forgive if we doesn't tell the sin to his supporters?
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  3. #2
    HCR Ole' Head Ras's Avatar
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    And I think part of the problem is as he stated "he never imagined himself being there". Again, yall might think this is harsh, but that's how pride works. For example, most of us would NEVER be a cannibal. Eat another human being? No way! But look at the those people who crashed in that plane years ago. Remember what they did to survive? I'm sure they thought they would never do that either. If that's your attitude, you're the perfect candidate to fall. Again, people of God, learn from this. Do as Da Truth said on "Click, No Regrets". Be the wise person.
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  5. #3
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    Well...

    Yeah, he messed up pretty bad, and I went to those old songs of da Truth, too. IMO, I think we can forgive him of this because in the words of the nun from Sister Act 2 "You don't have to bite the donught to know it's sweet." I don't need to know the details of what he did to say I forgive you. IMO, that's kind of like saying I have to go to a priest to be forgiven of my sins.

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  7. #4
    Young Bol voltron1906's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ras View Post
    And I think part of the problem is as he stated "he never imagined himself being there". Again, yall might think this is harsh, but that's how pride works. For example, most of us would NEVER be a cannibal. Eat another human being? No way! But look at the those people who crashed in that plane years ago. Remember what they did to survive? I'm sure they thought they would never do that either. If that's your attitude, you're the perfect candidate to fall. Again, people of God, learn from this. Do as Da Truth said on "Click, No Regrets". Be the wise person.
    I totally agree with you there bruh. I know we have disagreed before but pride does work that way: sneaks in and catches you off guard. My pastor said that temptation is just like the lamb who nibbles at grass and soon nibbles away from the flock.

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  9. #5
    HCR Ole' Head CHRISTion's Avatar
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    I felt sad while reading that letter, because I have felt the similar pain that he is feeling. While I am not a nationally known and respected CHH artist, nor have I ever been married, I have been engaged and had to call the wedding off due to "moral indiscretion". These times are hard because you are forced to come face to face that it really is not how much you know biblically, or what your doctrinal beliefs are, or even how gifted you are... the sad fact is that we REALLY DO have to watch our lives closely because SIN is ALWAYS present, and ready to take you down... AND... because God loves US so much, He will NOT allow for any "indiscretions" to not come out because sadly some of us will continue this behavior until it's exposed (I'm talking about me here too-not just others).

    So, again I do pray for Manny, but I also pray for those who will be rocked enough by this to let it affect their relationship with GOD. While it hurt deeply to see 3 dear brothers whose music I enjoy VERY much (Brindle, Duce and now Manny) get taken out, I also know that the message they proclaim is still every bit as true as when God inspired them to write it. I also know that God is faithful and just and will never allow for things to happen that He did not want to happen--so even now He is strengthening those who will continue to carry the torch (116 clique, Lampmode, CM-and the others that you guys will be thinking of) and He is raising up those who will come after... we do not know why God allowed this to happen-but maybe it was time that a whistle was blown as SO MANY started to seek this public rap ministry and God wants those to know that it's a HEAVY calling that requires more than any one of us could possibly imagine... again... who knows...

    So, again, because I have been in a similar place, it's impossible for me to have anything less than open arms to this brother and still love him despite his faults. Trust me, it's a lonely, dispicable place to be in when your sin gets exposed for all to see and the tears, your apologies and everything else is spat upon and all you're met with are angry eyes and suddenly graceless folks who are all the sudden judgemental as THEY can't believe you would do such a thing (as if it's not in all of us).

    Let us remember 1 Corin. 10:12 (in dealing with sexual temptation)-"So if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!!"
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  11. #6
    HCR Ole' Head Ras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRISTion View Post
    I felt sad while reading that letter, because I have felt the similar pain that he is feeling. While I am not a nationally known and respected CHH artist, nor have I ever been married, I have been engaged and had to call the wedding off due to "moral indiscretion". These times are hard because you are forced to come face to face that it really is not how much you know biblically, or what your doctrinal beliefs are, or even how gifted you are... the sad fact is that we REALLY DO have to watch our lives closely because SIN is ALWAYS present, and ready to take you down... AND... because God loves US so much, He will NOT allow for any "indiscretions" to not come out because sadly some of us will continue this behavior until it's exposed (I'm talking about me here too-not just others).

    So, again I do pray for Manny, but I also pray for those who will be rocked enough by this to let it affect their relationship with GOD. While it hurt deeply to see 3 dear brothers whose music I enjoy VERY much (Brindle, Duce and now Manny) get taken out, I also know that the message they proclaim is still every bit as true as when God inspired them to write it. I also know that God is faithful and just and will never allow for things to happen that He did not want to happen--so even now He is strengthening those who will continue to carry the torch (116 clique, Lampmode, CM-and the others that you guys will be thinking of) and He is raising up those who will come after... we do not know why God allowed this to happen-but maybe it was time that a whistle was blown as SO MANY started to seek this public rap ministry and God wants those to know that it's a HEAVY calling that requires more than any one of us could possibly imagine... again... who knows...

    So, again, because I have been in a similar place, it's impossible for me to have anything less than open arms to this brother and still love him despite his faults. Trust me, it's a lonely, dispicable place to be in when your sin gets exposed for all to see and the tears, your apologies and everything else is spat upon and all you're met with are angry eyes and suddenly graceless folks who are all the sudden judgemental as THEY can't believe you would do such a thing (as if it's not in all of us).

    Let us remember 1 Corin. 10:12 (in dealing with sexual temptation)-"So if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!!"
    man, sad to hear that bro.
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  12. #7
    HCR Veterano btate0121's Avatar
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    1) BRAVO TO DA TRUTH for writing his OWN stinkin letter and addressing his fans and supporters PERSONALLY. I'm glad it came from HIM.. and not his LABEL. Kudos... that in no way pardons the sin. i'm just glad he spoke for himself.

    2) First and foremost.. the sin he committed was against God.. and from his own words.. we know that he's stepping down, repented, and seeking to be disciplined biblically.

    3) Praying for Manny and all parties involved. I don't necessarily think the details need to be aired.. tho the letter does seem a bit "fluffy".. i wish he would have just called sin... well... sin.

    4) HE'S NOT JUSTIFYING his actions... he acknowledges they're wrong and he's not leading people in the wrong direction by kind of excusing his behavior. Out of all the mess that's come to light lately.. so far.. this one has been handled the best.

    5) I feel horrible.. praying for them again.. Let's all pray and hope that we never have to deal with something like this... let alone publicly.

    Grace AND truth... we don't play favorites

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  14. #8
    HCR Ole' Head The_Expositor's Avatar
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    I hope we'd all pray harder for marriages in the body of Christ as well. Not only has a rapper fallen, but a husband, father and leader of the family. The local church is only as strong as its families and this is all too common a tragedy in the church.

    I'm glad that Manny made his own statement and acknowledged his need and willingness to repent, first to God, and then his family, etc. I don't know him personally, but I know people who are very close to him and I know how this has hurt everyone to hear about.

    Truth be told, we're all hypocrites at some point or another. We all do things that don't necessarily meet up with our confession of faith. We all fall short of even our own moral standards, let alone God's standard. While the sin committed doesn't line up with this brother's words, we need to be careful ourselves of how we critique this situation. Let's be sure to extend as much grace to this brother as we'd like for ourselves from those whom we have served and served with in the universal body of Christ.

    With that said, I think there is a certain amount of shame that should be felt whenever any of us fall into diverse temptations. Hopefully, that shame will be felt from within the heart of a regenerate believer who falls and not primarily from those who claim to love them and pray for them. But, let's not counteract God's grace in reconciliation and restoration by carrying this story too long. Manny says he has repented. So, God has already forgiven this brother. We need to be quick to do the same, even without knowing it all.

    Trust, I am not trying to stifle discussion, nor discourage it. I believe much can be gleaned from this situation. But, at the same time, let's be careful to keep it all in its proper perspective when it comes to ourselves. Let's be mindful to "watch and pray" as our loving Savior commanded Peter, James and John, lest we too fall into temptation. Let's be careful to watch our life and doctrine carefully, making sure we never separate the two from each other.

    Thanks for your post, Ras. I agree with much of it and thanks for continuing to pray. I love you guys! (and gals)
    "He who hates, disguises it with his lips, and lays up deceit within himself; When he speaks kindly, do not believ him, for there are seven abominations in his heart." Proverbs 26

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    HCR Veterano KFB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ras View Post
    Apology Letter

    But despite all of that, his moral indescetion is just plain irony. A man whose ministry and message was built upon integrity. I mean listen to the album "Open Book"!! Oh, the irony. Listen to "Who Am I?" Is he going to be a hero in the faith? Or a picture of what NOT to be like. Like people in the Bible (and before yall think I'm being too hard, these are HIS WORDS).

    Listen to Click (No Regrets). A wise man learns from other men's errors. He saw what happens when moral indescretion happens. In his "father in the faith" case (Duce), it was adultery. And he saw the results. And as a supporter, it's like, why not learn from that what happens when you commit moral indescretion?

    That's what makes this so hard to accept. He was a personal rapper. It's not like he just preached Christ and I can just enjoy the biblical truths. Who he was (similar to Paul) was mixed in with the Gospel.
    You summed up some of my thoughts perfectly here. How Ironic he was a very "personal" rapper in the fact that he was not just spitting "abstract" doctrine but about his life and how he applied it to his life. I know this news will be a surprise to many but being in a position of "power" & "fame" has to be difficult for any man, let alone a believer. I'm not making an excuse for the brother's behavior, just stating a fact that these brothers with a little bit of shine need much prayer BEFORE "moral indiscretions" take place, as they will be under attack in many ways some of us won't be.
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    much prayer is in order. not just for this situation, but as a normal way of life. let's guard our hearts, family
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  20. #11
    HCR Ole' Head CHRISTion's Avatar
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    Ras-I agree with part of your post, but I disagree with parts of it too...

    I agree with most of what you said about him being more of a personal rapper and how he transcended the culture... that part is true... and at least in my eyes, I'm not going to stop listening to his music because he fell in this area... (again, maybe it's because I struggle so much in the area of sex and lust and because I've been here, I just have a different heart towards people with this struggle...)

    But the last part of your post is where I disagreed with-I think you're being too harsh on the dude and it sounds like you're allowing for how you personally feel about him to be more harsh on him (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it's sounding). Some people know the full story, some don't... but I think that's the problem with today's society... we are such a nosy, slow down traffic to look at the accident society instead and we want to know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING which would be ok if people had good motives, but sadly, people don't. There are those who can know something and sincerely want to pray for that person because they know them and want to help them, but what good is blasting all that he did on his personal site? Why put everything out there? Isn't this a personal matter between (first) he and God and then to the people directly involved?? Is it wrong to ask people to pray for you in general without having to give everyone a play by play as to what's wrong? Doesn't God already know? I don't feel it's necessary for ANYBODY to have to air what's going on in order to have people pray to a God who already knows everything anyway. The man said he had a "moral indiscretion" and asked for prayer. Obviously it's serious enough to have him step away from all he's doing and be reconciled with his wfe and those directly involved. I feel like that is enough, why do you not think so?

    Also, I think it's a little unfair for you to bring up what happened with Duce in this and think that the 2 things are tied in either way. I know when I got caught up in my sin, I didn't tell anybody, which was why my friends were so pissed at me because they wanted to help me through it but I hid it. Perhaps Manny and Duce did the same thing. I'm NOT saying that we should just overlook this and just have 100% grace on the dude, but I just feel like you're not showing a lot of grace from your post. Am I reading you wrong??
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    HCR Veterano Azriel's Avatar
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    I don't know why...but the term "sabbatical" bothers me in regards to this context.

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    a recent read from my devotionals: http://www.ourdailyjourney.org/2009/...-kill-shelter/

    excerpt -

    In many ways, the community of faith is meant to be like “no kill shelters” for people who are broken or struggling with sin (Galatians 6:1). Too often, however, we tend to “shoot” our wounded. And the ones who want to pull the trigger first are often hiding deep struggles of their own behind a wall of self-righteousness.
    just for consideration in this matter.
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    Though my first reaction is prayer for those involved and marriages period, my second is that the letter did sound a little political, I think leaving things to speculation isn't always a good thing (especially on this board), i think he could have been more specific while still being tasteful and appropriate, yet totally transparent and broken, cause as soon as I read the letter directly under it was the "OK now ENTER Da Truths website ". Kinda like in that "Lost" video where he chose not to where a shirt with his "past" sin like the rest of the characters, it came across to me as being above that.


    My heart and prayers go out brother and sister.

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    HCR Ole' Head d.hyde's Avatar
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    I understand some may want more clarity to be in the letter. I am just glad that he wrote it. Most people wouldn't even do that.

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    man, Its a rough year for CM really.

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    HCR Ole' Head CHRISTion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.hyde View Post
    I understand some may want more clarity to be in the letter. I am just glad that he wrote it. Most people wouldn't even do that.
    I'm not saying I don't understand that either... there's a lot of curiosity in all of this, but again, I think we should check our motives in this matter. Why do we think we're owed anything more than what he gave? Should people have to do this when caught up in sin and asking for prayer??
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRISTion View Post
    I'm not saying I don't understand that either... there's a lot of curiosity in all of this, but again, I think we should check our motives in this matter. Why do we think we're owed anything more than what he gave? Should people have to do this when caught up in sin and asking for prayer??
    Exactly.

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    HCR Veterano Azriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ras View Post
    Apology Letter
    What are your thoughts on the letter? And before yall say "pray for them". I have been praying for Da Truth for years.

    Obviously, if you're familar with my postings and you don't want to read blunt OPINIONS, read no further. This is not a "pray for him" posting.

    1st my thoughts on Da Truth. I've always been a fan of his music depite what some might think. Just because I criticize, don't mean I don't like you. I'm just blunt in what I like and don't like..

    Now, from a Christian rap stand point, (imo) he was the Jay Z of CHH. Meaning, as far as units go, he was 1 of few East Coast rappers in this day and time (or any) that still could push units. And that's a no dis to Everyday Process, R-Swift, Rhyme Counsel types.

    He transcended the genre because he was actually breaking barriers as far as the Black church and CHH. (For example, performing on the Stellars. Kirk Franklin tour and album). Something that "Da King" of CHH (my opinion) Lecrae isn't doing on that scale. Because Crae has a different lane. (but that's another thread). On TBN. Viktory's tour. So he has accomplished a lot.

    But despite all of that, his moral indescetion is just plain irony. A man whose ministry and message was built upon integrity. I mean listen to the album "Open Book"!! Oh, the irony. Listen to "Who Am I?" Is he going to be a hero in the faith? Or a picture of what NOT to be like. Like people in the Bible (and before yall think I'm being too hard, these are HIS WORDS).

    Listen to Click (No Regrets). A wise man learns from other men's errors. He saw what happens when moral indescretion happens. In his "father in the faith" case (Duce), it was adultery. And he saw the results. And as a supporter, it's like, why not learn from that what happens when you commit moral indescretion?

    That's what makes this so hard to accept. He was a personal rapper. It's not like he just preached Christ and I can just enjoy the biblical truths. Who he was (similar to Paul) was mixed in with the Gospel.

    Now, as far as the meat of letter, I don't know how biblically we can collective forgive him? So help me out. Since that's what he's asking his supporter to do. It's not clear in what he did (though I know what he did. Some of his supporters don't.)" A "moral indescretion in his PERSONAL life"? That sounds like some a political press secretary would say. Can we forgive if we doesn't tell the sin to his supporters?
    Forgiveness must come with a balance of humility. Collective forgiveness will demonstrated be by his FAMILY of the faith (who are more than mere supporters or fans), as we love him, learn from his example and pray fervently for him. He will stand before the Father alone, just like the rest of us (as I know you know Ras). The gory details are not needed to be stated, although a vague statement is not needed as well...but if that is all that is provided...then people need to SUCK it up, fight the flesh in regards to speculation and get over it and check their own walks before the Lord in light of his word. The only ones that need to be made aware is the local church, in which he was in a position of leadership (elder in training)...the local church is the ones who will be called upon for Discipline and Restoration.

    But what must take place is purity from bitterness, anger and prejudice in the hearts of all of the Body who is aware of his past ministry. The Lord is obviously not done with him, if he was he would have taken him (cf. 1 Cor. 11). So in God's mercy, he is chastening our brother, loving our brother, prayerfully restoring those immediately involved to purity before the Father, and meanwhile, dealing with the issues of the heart in those in the body who have been exposed to this situation.

    Our attitutude should be that of Gal. 6:1, we should all realized that compromise comes in our hearts, inch by inch, not mile by mile and we too run the risk.

    People need to see our brother for what he is, not a superstar, not the King of CHH, not a "crossover act", not a teacher, not an instructor, but an heir to the throne, who has been justified, is being sanctified in humility.

    So, to wrap up, He didn't sin against us, it was against the Lord. Our role in this is to do exactly what you said fams...notice the fall of others, check our hearts, live 1 John 1:8-10, receive correction, pray we reflect BIBLICAL repentance in our own lives (cf. 2 Cor 7:9-11) and finish our race in order to hear; "well done".

    Hope this gives some morsel of insight,

    Love you bro,
    d
    Last edited by Azriel; 11-03-2009 at 01:41 PM.

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    Honestly, how would you take it if Enron CEOs said they had "Personal Financial Indiscretion"?

    Or Mike Vick came out and said he had "Personal Animal Treatment Indiscretion"
    Last edited by phil; 11-03-2009 at 02:02 PM.

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