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View Poll Results: Should We End Welfare?

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  • Yes

    4 17.39%
  • No

    19 82.61%
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  1. #41
    HCR Ole' Head jeyjey34's Avatar
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    I kinda skimmed through the posts, but we should absolutely NOT end welfare. There will always be someone in need, whether it's a single woman having kids out of wedlock or a family with a husband and wife that are just struggling to make ends meet. Things happen. People get laid off. Companies downsize. Etc...

    In regards to the church, yes the church should help and a lot of churches do help by having soup kitchens and things, but the church can only do so much. The church can't support EVERY family with their daily needs, food, clothing, shelter, etc... That's where welfare comes in. And we can talk about pastors with million dollars all day, but even with their money, it wouldn't be enough to support EVERY family with their daily needs.
    "Oh God, you are my God and I will ever praise you."

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    HCR Familia souljah77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Did you read my post right?



    I even stressed that it may not have made sense. Which meant to think about what I said before responding.

    What I said was that we shouldn't end welfare without FIRST ending the NEED for welfare. If nobody needs welfare, then welfare is NO LONGER needed. But if there are people who need it, then welfare DOES NOT need to end. We still need to END the NEED for welfare by helping people get out of welfare status.

    Will it ever end and was that even my point? No, that was not my point. You mis-read my post.
    No, it wasn't your point...it was mine.


    Dude, calm down. I know perfectly well what you were saying, so no worries. I wasn't attacking anything you said, nor did I misunderstand you. Why are you so upset?

    You just restated what you meant, which is exactly how I took it. "If nobody needs welfare, then welfare is no longer needed. We still need to end the need for welfare by helping people out of welfare.." That is your point, right? Well, my point was that the need for welfare won't cease, at least any time soon if at all, and I cited that verse to explain why.

    As this verse explains, there will always be someone who needs welfare or help in some way. I'm not saying everyone on welfare needs it, some folk are just on a free ride. But there are and always will be people who genuinely need help, and that need goes beyond the control of the government whether they want to stop it or not, because God himself has stated in the Word that there will always be people in need. You can help people out and get them out the rut, but the way this world works and the way the economy has been going, we can bank on seeing a new set of people who will then need welfare to get back on their feet. It's been going on since the dawn of man, and according to God that won't end. So trying to end the need for welfare is not the answer.

    Plus, let's face facts, some of the very people who want to see welfare ended are selfish and greedy and don't want to be openhanded to the poor like the Bible says we should be. They want to see welfare ended because they have the old "I got mine, you gotta get yours" mentality. Not saying that's your mentality, I very much doubt that. But that's a reality of this world.

    If something I said upset you or offended, I'm sorry. But we're just talking dude, no need for stress.
    "Everything that makes you frown ain't always deception; Everything you makes you smile ain't always a blessin'" - E-Pistle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    well..here are FOUR steps to solving poverty:

    Graduate from high school
    Don't have kids out of wedlock
    Go to college/learn a trade
    GET A JOB and don't be picky.

    Messing up just ONE of those can put you on poverty road.

    It ain't rocket science.
    If it were only that simple though.

    Cause you have to do all of that amongst:

    social ills
    the broken/dysfunctional family
    the drug war
    genocide
    gang violence
    racism and injustices
    terrorist threats
    war
    inflation
    faulty/poor school systems
    poverty-stricken neighborhoods
    teen targeted cigarette ads
    sex-driven music, movies and media
    THE DEVIL
    and more...

    The answer is the Kingdom of God.

  4. #44
    HCR Ole' Head Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    well..here are FOUR steps to solving poverty:

    Graduate from high school
    Don't have kids out of wedlock
    Go to college/learn a trade
    GET A JOB and don't be picky.

    Messing up just ONE of those can put you on poverty road.

    It ain't rocket science.
    Yep.So far i got 3 down....one more to go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    No, it wasn't your point...it was mine.


    Dude, calm down. I know perfectly well what you were saying, so no worries. I wasn't attacking anything you said, nor did I misunderstand you. Why are you so upset?

    You just restated what you meant, which is exactly how I took it. "If nobody needs welfare, then welfare is no longer needed. We still need to end the need for welfare by helping people out of welfare.." That is your point, right? Well, my point was that the need for welfare won't cease, at least any time soon if at all, and I cited that verse to explain why.

    As this verse explains, there will always be someone who needs welfare or help in some way. I'm not saying everyone on welfare needs it, some folk are just on a free ride. But there are and always will be people who genuinely need help, and that need goes beyond the control of the government whether they want to stop it or not, because God himself has stated in the Word that there will always be people in need. You can help people out and get them out the rut, but the way this world works and the way the economy has been going, we can bank on seeing a new set of people who will then need welfare to get back on their feet. It's been going on since the dawn of man, and according to God that won't end. So trying to end the need for welfare is not the answer.

    Plus, let's face facts, some of the very people who want to see welfare ended are selfish and greedy and don't want to be openhanded to the poor like the Bible says we should be. They want to see welfare ended because they have the old "I got mine, you gotta get yours" mentality. Not saying that's your mentality, I very much doubt that. But that's a reality of this world.

    If something I said upset you or offended, I'm sorry. But we're just talking dude, no need for stress.
    What I think it is is probably a sub-conscious thing... you've been responding to a lot of my posts lately.

    So my apologies.

    But we don't see eye to eye on that verse you posted though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    No, it wasn't your point...it was mine.


    Dude, calm down. I know perfectly well what you were saying, so no worries. I wasn't attacking anything you said, nor did I misunderstand you. Why are you so upset?

    You just restated what you meant, which is exactly how I took it. "If nobody needs welfare, then welfare is no longer needed. We still need to end the need for welfare by helping people out of welfare.." That is your point, right? Well, my point was that the need for welfare won't cease, at least any time soon if at all, and I cited that verse to explain why.

    As this verse explains, there will always be someone who needs welfare or help in some way. I'm not saying everyone on welfare needs it, some folk are just on a free ride. But there are and always will be people who genuinely need help, and that need goes beyond the control of the government whether they want to stop it or not, because God himself has stated in the Word that there will always be people in need. You can help people out and get them out the rut, but the way this world works and the way the economy has been going, we can bank on seeing a new set of people who will then need welfare to get back on their feet. It's been going on since the dawn of man, and according to God that won't end. So trying to end the need for welfare is not the answer.

    Plus, let's face facts, some of the very people who want to see welfare ended are selfish and greedy and don't want to be openhanded to the poor like the Bible says we should be. They want to see welfare ended because they have the old "I got mine, you gotta get yours" mentality. Not saying that's your mentality, I very much doubt that. But that's a reality of this world.

    If something I said upset you or offended, I'm sorry. But we're just talking dude, no need for stress.
    well i personally dont fit this discription.i just dont believe its the governments job.if the government wants to do this fine but we need a better way of doing this.

  7. #47
    HCR Veterano Rikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    If it were only that simple though.

    Cause you have to do all of that amongst:

    social ills
    the broken/dysfunctional family
    the drug war
    genocide
    gang violence
    racism and injustices
    terrorist threats
    war
    inflation
    faulty/poor school systems
    poverty-stricken neighborhoods
    teen targeted cigarette ads
    sex-driven music, movies and media
    THE DEVIL
    and more...

    The answer is the Kingdom of God.
    I know that and YOU know that.

    HOWEVER, people with the right mindset can do better than being on welfare. A LOT of folks have been able to support themselves IN SPITE OF the evil that exists in this world. SOME folk need help, that's true. But to act as if one cannot make it without the government stepping in is ridiculous, and causes what we're seeing now: The woe-is-me, I-was-abused-molested-neglected-so-therefore-I-cannot-be-responsible MENTALITY.

    I can't get with that. People should be given help if they need it, for a LIMITED amount of time, and ENCOURAGED to stand up and take responsibility for their lives, not coddled and taken care of by taxpayers because they had a rough life.
    “Thanks to Planned Parenthood for all the work you....across this country. And also for men who have enough sense to realize that you are helping them all across the country.” -Barack Obama, July 2007

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  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    What I think it is is probably a sub-conscious thing... you've been responding to a lot of my posts lately.
    Subconcious on my part? Nah, bro, nothing like that. I respond to a lot of people's posts. We just happen to have been meeting up more in convo lately. Take it as a compliment, though, that probably means you've had some real interesting stuff to say lately


    I'll tone down responding to you if you need me to, seriously, my bad if I upset you.
    "Everything that makes you frown ain't always deception; Everything you makes you smile ain't always a blessin'" - E-Pistle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    I know that and YOU know that.

    HOWEVER, people with the right mindset can do better than being on welfare. A LOT of folks have been able to support themselves IN SPITE OF the evil that exists in this world. SOME folk need help, that's true. But to act as if one cannot make it without the government stepping in is ridiculous, and causes what we're seeing now: The woe-is-me, I-was-abused-molested-neglected-so-therefore-I-cannot-be-responsible MENTALITY.

    I can't get with that. People should be given help if they need it, for a LIMITED amount of time, and ENCOURAGED to stand up and take responsibility for their lives, not coddled and taken care of by taxpayers because they had a rough life.
    I didn't say or suggest that someone can't make it without government assistance. You listed and presented four things in what sounded like a "simple" sure-fire solution. But you didn't put the reality of the situation in there with it.

    If it were that easy, why isn't everyone doing it? Because the reality is that more people are caught up in bad situations that cause them to not be able to walk that straight line you presented. Yes, you and I know that, but we also KNOW BETTER than to think it's that simple as well. There are children who can't focus on getting into college because they are hungry, or because mama is on drugs, or daddy has them living in fear. Or they move from complex to complex because of evictions. Yes, some make it out, but MOST don't. The answer is the Lord's kingdom.

    The answer to getting ahead in life - in my opinion and from understanding of scripture - are not those things you listed. It is only the kingdom of God. Not "church." Folks need to be educated on how to live the kingdom way. That's what is missing. Not education, trades, etc (which are all "good").
    Last edited by Zee; 09-09-2008 at 02:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    Subconcious on my part? Nah, bro, nothing like that. I respond to a lot of people's posts. We just happen to have been meeting up more in convo lately. Take it as a compliment, though, that probably means you've had some real interesting stuff to say lately


    I'll tone down responding to you if you need me to, seriously, my bad if I upset you.
    Sub-conscious on MY part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    well i personally dont fit this discription.i just dont believe its the governments job.if the government wants to do this fine but we need a better way of doing this.
    True, I wouldn't think that's anybody on this board fits that description really, just society in general. I agree, the Church needs to pick up the slack. Thing is, too many churches are unwilling to even reach the neighborhood around them, or link up with other churches.

    In DC and other cities, you can have five churches on the same street, but how often do they ever work together to reach the people on the street outside of carnivals and the repast? We hear them talk about Jesus saying come as you are, yet when the people do come as they are, they get the hand.

    Not every church nor is it every saint is like that, but one church or saint is too many. Maybe that's why gov't officials tend to feel they have to step in, I don't know.
    "Everything that makes you frown ain't always deception; Everything you makes you smile ain't always a blessin'" - E-Pistle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    well..here are FOUR steps to solving poverty:

    Graduate from high school
    Don't have kids out of wedlock
    Go to college/learn a trade
    GET A JOB and don't be picky.

    Messing up just ONE of those can put you on poverty road.

    It ain't rocket science.
    These 4 steps sound good, but to add on to what you said about college and learning a trade, people need to have in mind what they like to do or what they WOULD like to do and then pursue it and make that their goal. If you don't like what you're doing, then you may find yourself bouncing around from job to job...which can lead to poverty.
    "Oh God, you are my God and I will ever praise you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Sub-conscious on MY part.
    Oh ok...like I said I'll lay off if you need me to, no worries.
    "Everything that makes you frown ain't always deception; Everything you makes you smile ain't always a blessin'" - E-Pistle

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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    Oh ok...like I said I'll lay off if you need me to, no worries.
    No, no need to lay off. I still think you didn't understand my previous point. That's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    I didn't say or suggest that someone can't make it without government assistance. You listed and presented four things in what sounded like a "simple" sure-fire solution. But you didn't put the reality of the situation in there with it.

    If it were that easy, why isn't everyone doing it? Because the reality is that more people are caught up in bad situations that cause them to not be able to walk that straight line you presented. Yes, you and I know that, but we also KNOW BETTER than to think it's that simple as well.

    The answer to getting ahead in life - in my opinion and from understanding of scripture - are not those things you listed. It is only the kingdom of God. Not "church." Folks need to be educated on how to live the kingdom way. That's what is missing. Not education, trades, etc.
    I said they were four STEPS, not an entire solution. However, if one manages to DO those four steps, then one most likely won't be in the welfare line. There are exceptions to EVERYTHING.

    So let's talk about the reality of MY situation:

    Before I was 5 years old:

    Mom worked 3-11.
    Dad was irresponsible and made me walk to school when it was his fault I missed the bus. It was winter. I was in KINDERGARTEN.
    Dad was an adulterer, who would put other women's babies in my crib with me.
    Dad was a drunk, who would have his drunk friends over while my mom was at work, and tried to get me to drink beer at the age of 3.
    I can't tell you how many porn magazines I saw.
    Paternal relative #1 sexually abuses me.
    Mom kicks dad out, becomes single parent to my brother and I.

    After 5 years old:

    I HAVE NO FATHER. PERIOD.
    Paternal relative #2 sexually abuses me.
    Our house was falling apart because my mom couldn't afford to make repairs.
    We are POOR.
    Mom doesn't date until I'm 13, but once she does, I'm kinda left to fend for myself in a lot of ways.
    Got pregnant at 16.
    Had miscarriage.
    Was promiscuous for years.
    Was raised in the church, even a preacher's grandkid, all my life, but didn't get saved until I was 21.


    But even through all of that...I have had a JOB since I was 15. I graduated from High School. I went to a business school. Yeah, I messed up on that child out of wedlock thing...though I was 28 when I did that one. And messing up that ONE step put me where I am now.

    I said all this to say that I KNOW the reality of a situation. But folk can't use that as an EXCUSE. It's not easy, but you do what you have to DO. Giving people welfare without limits discourages that. Talk about teaching people to fish? We should be schooling them on at LEAST those FOUR steps instead of acting like MOST of them don't bear any responsibility for their situations.

    For MOST people, me included, life doesn't beat you down, you do it to yourself.
    “Thanks to Planned Parenthood for all the work you....across this country. And also for men who have enough sense to realize that you are helping them all across the country.” -Barack Obama, July 2007

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    I said they were four STEPS, not an entire solution. However, if one manages to DO those four steps, then one most likely won't be in the welfare line. There are exceptions to EVERYTHING.

    So let's talk about the reality of MY situation:

    Before I was 5 years old:

    Mom worked 3-11.
    Dad was irresponsible and made me walk to school when it was his fault I missed the bus. It was winter. I was in KINDERGARTEN.
    Dad was an adulterer, who would put other women's babies in my crib with me.
    Dad was a drunk, who would have his drunk friends over while my mom was at work, and tried to get me to drink beer at the age of 3.
    I can't tell you how many porn magazines I saw.
    Paternal relative #1 sexually abuses me.
    Mom kicks dad out, becomes single parent to my brother and I.

    After 5 years old:

    I HAVE NO FATHER. PERIOD.
    Paternal relative #2 sexually abuses me.
    Our house was falling apart because my mom couldn't afford to make repairs.
    We are POOR.
    Mom doesn't date until I'm 13, but once she does, I'm kinda left to fend for myself in a lot of ways.
    Got pregnant at 16.
    Had miscarriage.
    Was promiscuous for years.
    Was raised in the church, even a preacher's grandkid, all my life, but didn't get saved until I was 21.


    But even through all of that...I have had a JOB since I was 15. I graduated from High School. I went to a business school. Yeah, I messed up on that child out of wedlock thing...though I was 28 when I did that one. And messing up that ONE step put me where I am now.

    I said all this to say that I KNOW the reality of a situation. But folk can't use that as an EXCUSE. It's not easy, but you do what you have to DO. Giving people welfare without limits discourages that. Talk about teaching people to fish? We should be schooling them on at LEAST those FOUR steps instead of acting like MOST of them don't bear any responsibility for their situations.

    For MOST people, me included, life doesn't beat you down, you do it to yourself.
    I slightly disagree with you. I believe life does try to beat you down AND you do it yourself do to lack of knowledge.

    Consider yourself - me too - more fortunate. But that is not the usual case for those in poverty stricken situations.

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    welfare is part of OT law

    OT welfare is not equally distribute weath

    OT welfare is not government provided comforts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    well..here are FOUR steps to solving poverty:

    Graduate from high school
    Don't have kids out of wedlock
    Go to college/learn a trade
    GET A JOB and don't be picky.

    Messing up just ONE of those can put you on poverty road.

    It ain't rocket science.
    ... and stay out of debt.
    foreknew. predestined. called. justified. glorified Romans 8:29-30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    I slightly disagree with you. I believe life does try to beat you down AND you do it yourself do to lack of knowledge.

    Consider yourself - me too - more fortunate. But that is not the usual case for those in poverty stricken situations.

    I wasn't talking about what life TRIES to do. My point was this: Most folk who are poor, are poor because of the choices they made, not some random thing called LIFE. I STILL don't make the best choices, but I KNOW that, and don't attribute it to life, the government, social ills, etc.

    I wouldn't even say it's a lack of knowledge. I KNEW better than to do the things I did. I did them ANYWAY...and so do MOST people.
    “Thanks to Planned Parenthood for all the work you....across this country. And also for men who have enough sense to realize that you are helping them all across the country.” -Barack Obama, July 2007

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    I wasn't talking about what life TRIES to do. My point was this: Most folk who are poor, are poor because of the choices they made, not some random thing called LIFE. I STILL don't make the best choices, but I KNOW that, and don't attribute it to life, the government, social ills, etc.

    I wouldn't even say it's a lack of knowledge. I KNEW better than to do the things I did. I did them ANYWAY...and so do MOST people.
    We can agree to disagree. Most persons thought-life and pattern of thinking stems from their upbringing and environment.

    It's a socio-economic issue, and to deny that is not being real about the situation.

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