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View Poll Results: Should We End Welfare?

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  • Yes

    4 17.39%
  • No

    19 82.61%
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  1. #21
    HCR Ole' Head Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynaz24 View Post
    Unfortunately Devin, TAX free doesn't mean BILL free..lol
    i know that.But most of these "mega pastors" aint hurting for cash neither bro.like i said...if they would just sell thier mansion,private jet,and rolls royce phantom then maybe they could do more in their communities that make them Rich in the first place.on Secular hip-hop boards you can see hip hop fans talking bad about rappers who don't do nothing in their community yet for some odd reason Mega Preachers are off the hook?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    hmmmmm...that is very interesting.So its more beneficial for you financially to stay at home and not work than it is to actually get a job?
    I'ma give you an example of what she's talking bout..I had a case where a mom had 3 children by 3 different dudes..She got GOv't paid Section 8 housing and all she had to pay was $1 a month in rent. In addition to that she recieved Welfare which was like $600-$800 a child..Soo..

    You can do the math..That chick never had to really work...but in the long run she would be crippled in terms of learning how to actually live on her own..
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    Welfare isn't bad. I've stood in line with my mom a few times waiting to get our box with cheese, sugar, butter, peanut butter, and pork.

    I think what the repubs did a few years ago was a good thing, which is to limit how long you can receive welfare. Welfare should be a stop gap, not a permanent means of "well being".
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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    i know that.But most of these "mega pastors" aint hurting for cash neither bro.like i said...if they would just sell thier mansion,private jet,and rolls royce phantom then maybe they could do more in their communities that make them Rich in the first place.on Secular hip-hop boards you can see hip hop fans talking bad about rappers who don't do nothing in their community yet for some odd reason Mega Preachers are off the hook?
    I think the Burden would be on us to prove that they aren't doing stuff in thier communities..A person can live in a mansion and drive a nice car and be a Pastor and still do much in thier communities..I think the social status has nothing to do with thier desire to help others..

    It's a heart issue and that fact that IF you have the means to help then you should..
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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    hmmmmm...that is very interesting.So its more beneficial for you financially to stay at home and not work than it is to actually get a job?
    I said I could GET MORE HELP if I stayed home..not that it would necessarily be more beneficial.

    Government being all up in my business and controlling my life: NOT BENEFICIAL.

    Being able to be at home with my son..maybe even able to homeschool: BENEFICIAL.

    Not having any dignity: NOT BENEFICAL.

    LOL
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  8. #26
    HCR Ole' Head Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynaz24 View Post
    I think the Burden would be on us to prove that they aren't doing stuff in thier communities..A person can live in a mansion and drive a nice car and be a Pastor and still do much in thier communities..I think the social status has nothing to do with thier desire to help others..

    It's a heart issue and that fact that IF you have the means to help then you should..
    i agree...i think we would need more proof.but again most of those "mega preachers" preach the "get rich" stuff....so with that said i doubt their involvement in the community.i can personally tell you that if i was a pastor i wouldnt want all that flash.it would cause suspicion.....much like its doing now.lol.but on with the topic......

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    I said I could GET MORE HELP if I stayed home..not that it would necessarily be more beneficial.

    Government being all up in my business and controlling my life: NOT BENEFICIAL.

    Being able to be at home with my son..maybe even able to homeschool: BENEFICIAL.

    Not having any dignity: NOT BENEFICAL.

    LOL
    AND I SAID "BENEFICIAL FINANCIALLY!!!!"

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    I don't see it that way.again its not the church that would be hurting the child.its the MOTHERS own IGNORANCE and SIN that would doing this.If you can't take care of the one child you have then why have 40 more by 60 different men?WHY O WHY?...lol.

    I think i might have done an injustice by not being specific on certain kinds of welfare.

    I will say i have no problem with WIC in this case.But to give GROWN people money...no.

    And again WHO'S job is it to take care of the Poor?I think i used a bad scenario.Lets just say that she keeps having kids out of wedlock....in this situation i think the Church should be able to take care of the children.They might excommunicate the mother for her sins.but they wouldn let the children be derprived.
    Yes, it's the church job to take of the poor. And if they were doing it, then I guess we wouldn't need it. That's a big if though. Maybe it depends on the area. Where I'm from, we have soup kitchens and things like that. But some major churches are not missional though. To be real, it's not enough churches who would be missional enough to make sure every child would be fed. Not without the State's help.

    Some suburban churches in my area who have the resources spend their money on overseas missions. Which I ain't hating, that's good. (And some major denominations in my city view the poverty as a state of sin. But that's another thread). But some have nothing in inner city missions. Which ain't good.

    As long as you're taking care of the kids, I can entertain the thought of excommunication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    No. Welfare shouldn't end without trying to end the NEED for welfare. Hope that makes sense to those reading.
    Ending the need for welfare...is that possible?

    Is that what God really wants?


    Deut. 15:7-11(emphasis on verse 11)

    7 If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.

    8 Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs.

    9 Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: "The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near," so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the LORD against you, and you will be found guilty of sin.

    10 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.

    11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.



    In light of this, is trying to end the needing to take care of welfare(for those that actually need it) something God would approve of?
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    If I were a dishonest person, making money doing hair in my house, or some other side hustle and collecting benefits...YES IT WOULD BE MORE BENEFICIAL FINANCIALLY.

    Why you think I get aggravated seeing these chicks with better clothes and shoes than me, buying their toddlers Jordans, sitting at home planning what they're gonna do on friday night....as I go to work each day and barely make ends meet??

    I'm telling you..Jesus is the only reason why I don't hustle the system too.
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  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    Ending the need for welfare...is that possible?

    Is that what God really wants?


    Deut. 15:7-11(emphasis on verse 11)

    7 If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.

    8 Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs.

    9 Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: "The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near," so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the LORD against you, and you will be found guilty of sin.

    10 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.

    11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.



    In light of this, is trying to end the needing to take care of welfare(for those that actually need it) something God would approve of?

    well we would never end poverty.but that scripture isnt saying that we shouldnt take care of the poor at all though....of course it will never end...but that doesn't excuse us from doing our part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    If I were a dishonest person, making money doing hair in my house, or some other side hustle and collecting benefits...YES IT WOULD BE MORE BENEFICIAL FINANCIALLY.

    Why you think I get aggravated seeing these chicks with better clothes and shoes than me, buying their toddlers Jordans, sitting at home planning what they're gonna do on friday night....as I go to work each day and barely make ends meet??

    I'm telling you..Jesus is the only reason why I don't hustle the system too.
    yep.ironically this can incite envy.people have always said that tax increases on the rich is nothing more than class envy.the same argument can be made when you give more people (who dont really deserve it) welfare because it can incite envy amongst those who actually WORK for the things they want.The Worker struggles to get up out of bed and work their fingers to the bone while the Lazy Welfare receipent lives better than the person who is actually working because the Government is pacifing them.

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  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    is the church equipped?well if preachers were to give up their million dollar mansions,private jets,over priced vehicles and stop buying there wives new "bling" every day with the church money then i'd say yeah....theres gotta be a million churches in America.Most churches are tax free entities anyway...its about time they gave back.lol.
    well, that's unlikely if you view the poverty as a state of sin, theologically. Which some mega pastors do
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  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ras View Post
    well, that's unlikely if you view the poverty as a state of sin, theologically. Which some mega pastors do
    LOL.Sadly.....you actually have a point here...lol...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin View Post
    well we would never end poverty.but that scripture isnt saying that we shouldnt take care of the poor at all though....of course it will never end...but that doesn't excuse us from doing our part.
    Right, I agree, we should take care of the poor, not arguing that, in fact I was saying that very thing. I was responding to Zee when he said we should end the need for welfare. I brought that verse to show that such a need won't ever end in this earth, so what's the sense in trying to end that need? I agree government welfare programs need some restructuring, help the needy get to the point where they don't become a drain on the economy.

    As far as the church is concerned, that's an interesting situation, because the Church itself benefits from charity in a big way. Tithes, offerings, gifts make up a huge portion of the Church's income. If no one gave to the Church, the Church would need to find another way to finance its needs so it could take of others.

    I'd like to see some literature(if there's any) on how the present economy is having an effect on the financial well-being of American churches, if there is any effect. Anyone know where something like that could be found.
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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    Ending the need for welfare...is that possible?

    Is that what God really wants?


    Deut. 15:7-11(emphasis on verse 11)

    7 If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.

    8 Rather be openhanded and freely lend him whatever he needs.

    9 Be careful not to harbor this wicked thought: "The seventh year, the year for canceling debts, is near," so that you do not show ill will toward your needy brother and give him nothing. He may then appeal to the LORD against you, and you will be found guilty of sin.

    10 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.

    11 There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.



    In light of this, is trying to end the needing to take care of welfare(for those that actually need it) something God would approve of?
    Did you read my post right?

    No. Welfare shouldn't end without trying to end the NEED for welfare. Hope that makes sense to those reading.
    I even stressed that it may not have made sense. Which meant to think about what I said before responding.

    What I said was that we shouldn't end welfare without FIRST ending the NEED for welfare. If nobody needs welfare, then welfare is NO LONGER needed. But if there are people who need it, then welfare DOES NOT need to end. We still need to END the NEED for welfare by helping people get out of welfare status.

    Will it ever end and was that even my point? No, that was not my point. You mis-read my post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by souljah77 View Post
    I was responding to Zee when he said we should end the need for welfare.
    Ending welfare, and ending the NEED for welfare are not the same. Again, you misread my post. I even encouraged people to make sure they understood what I stated.

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    I read your post.....and I misunderstood. It sounded like you were saying we need to eliminate poverty first. I think you could have made it a little bit more clear.....maybe by saying "but that need will never be eliminated, so welfare will always be needed."

    I don't think it's the fault of the readers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki View Post
    I read your post.....and I misunderstood. It sounded like you were saying we need to eliminate poverty first. I think you could have made it a little bit more clear.....maybe by saying "but that need will never be eliminated, so welfare will always be needed."

    I don't think it's the fault of the readers.

    Disclaimer: The preceding words were typed with LOVE, not criticism.
    I was saying we need to eliminate poverty. But that doesn't mean eliminate welfare. But as long as there is poverty, people will need welfare. So, you didn't mis-read me. Instead of focusing on welfare, focus on solving WHY folks need welfare. In other words, why are people in poverty? Lets take care of that.

    ("The poor will be with you always" verse is not interpreted by me the same way as Souljah does by the way).

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    well..here are FOUR steps to solving poverty:

    Graduate from high school
    Don't have kids out of wedlock
    Go to college/learn a trade
    GET A JOB and don't be picky.

    Messing up just ONE of those can put you on poverty road.

    It ain't rocket science.
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