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Thread: Beers and Ales

  1. #241
    HCR Veterano mzsoulll's Avatar
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    Cool

    There are about 12 pages of deja vu here.

    This is why I LOVE God's word. It is His inerrant word that by His grace and mercy is provided for us, without need for editing or correction.

    When I see that there is liberty for me in scripture and a brother says there isn't for their own personal reasons, I'm sorry, I choose to believe what the bible says. God's word reigns supreme over legalism anyday. (and antinomialism...cause they are equally horrible)

    The bible is clear on how we must love one another and be mindful of what may cause each other to stumble. We must also be mindful of our own weaknesses.

    That being said, there's no need to defend our faith, because a few believe it to be lukewarm when we enjoy the freedoms that God has given us (what is permitted by scripture), are not excessive, and don't cause us, or anyone else to sin.

    I pray that we are always mindful that our worldly interests/liberties aren't causing us to sin.

    Now let's keep it gully 5000 and leave this dead horse to rot.
    Twitter: @mzsoulll

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  3. #242
    Super Moderator phil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Light_Within View Post
    Hey I have an idea! Let's water down the gospel as much as we can so we can flaunt our "liberties".
    Hey I have an idea! Let's create our own definition of sin and use it as a measuring stick by which become an accuser of the brethren. Let us take our false definition of holiness and tell the unbeliever that is it part of the gospel, thereby ACTUALLY watering down the gospel by adding to it.

    Let us continue to preach a standard that God in the flesh would not meet, nor David, Daniel, Abraham, Paul, or John. Perhaps we can win the approval of the Pharisees!

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  5. #243
    HCR Veterano VIBE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Light_Within View Post
    Hey I have an idea! Let's water down the gospel as much as we can so we can flaunt our "liberties".
    Haven't seen one person in here say they drink to get drunk. Read the posts buddy. You're a cool dude and all but you sound like my dad used to.

    My dad thought everything was sinful. Thinking was a sin to him. Looking at a car and saying, 'dang that's nice' was a sin. Everything was. I had to talk to some of his friends to get them to straighten him out.

    Drinking a beer or a wine isn't a sin.

    Drinking multiple drinks in order to get drunk is.

    I don't drink anymore at all, I stumble if I do. I feel once I've had one I want more because it's more "fun". Which, not going to lie, is a sin that I did enjoy a lot. Getting drunk was fun to me. I was a "fun drunk", singing, dancing, being foolish a bit (no stupid stuff though)

    But it's all not good for the body anyways, in all aspects. So I just stay away from the drinks at get togethers now.

    Let me ask this though, WHY is drunkness a sin? Is it because it causes you to sexually sin? (cheat or what not). Is it because it causes you to cause chaos? Is it because it can cause you to get angry more and made stupid decisions?

    What if while drunk, you never exhibit these things? Would it still be considered a sin?

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    HCR Veterano ZestD's Avatar
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    LOL @ this thread being bumped.


    BTW, I have a sixer of Sam Adams Cream Stout in my fridge as I type, granted it will take about 3-4 weeks to drink.
    "...that's why y'all cut me off, because I don't fake it..." -Enock

    "I heard one of your heroes took a fall- give him support, where's the love at now- y'all cut us short" - Sev Statik

  7. #245
    HCR Veterano Wes Pendleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.hyde View Post
    I think I'm about to learn how to use the ignore feature.
    I actually didn't want to use it, but I actually went ahead and activated it for the first time. Wish it didn't have to be, but erruh... it just had to happen.

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  9. #246
    HCR Veterano ROB's Avatar
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    That liberty is what it's all about, right?

    I pray that some of you actually get in touch with the Spirit of the Word rather than always seeking to use the letter of the Word to do whatever you want to.

    It's amazing. Son of Man's testimony will be totally pushed into a corner by the majority.
    Forward - March! Eyes - Rise!

    To the Battlefield - He who wins souls is wise!

    Del A Ray

  10. #247
    HCR Veterano Wes Pendleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROB View Post

    That liberty is what it's all about, right?

    I pray that some of you actually get in touch with the Spirit of the Word rather than always seeking to use the letter of the Word to do whatever you want to.

    It's amazing. Son of Man's testimony will be totally pushed into a corner by the majority.
    Rob...
    His testimony totally wasn't pushed into the corner. I want to ask you a serious question. Do you seriously know the hearts of everyone here? I don't think so. Just like I don't necessarily know your heart, mainly because we've never had a heart to heart (coming soon though lol). I think it's been stated like 4-5 times that the only issue with SOM's testimony was his claim that people forced him into sin. Other than that, I'm pretty sure we all are grateful to see God still granting his children grace, causing them to repent. If you looked, pretty much everyone was in agreement about being careful about what's said/typed out. Am I mistaken? As far as there being a difference between the "Spirit" of the Word, and the "letter", since when would God want us to not understand what's right on the surface of His Word? I'm just trying to understand good brother.

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  12. #248
    HCR Veterano ROB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Pendleton View Post
    Rob...
    His testimony totally wasn't pushed into the corner. I want to ask you a serious question. Do you seriously know the hearts of everyone here? I don't think so. Just like I don't necessarily know your heart, mainly because we've never had a heart to heart (coming soon though lol). I think it's been stated like 4-5 times that the only issue with SOM's testimony was his claim that people forced him into sin. Other than that, I'm pretty sure we all are grateful to see God still granting his children grace, causing them to repent. If you looked, pretty much everyone was in agreement about being careful about what's said/typed out. Am I mistaken? As far as there being a difference between the "Spirit" of the Word, and the "letter", since when would God want us to not understand what's right on the surface of His Word? I'm just trying to understand good brother.

    Wes, notice I'm using words like "the majority" not "all" because I realize that not everyone even posted in that thread. I didn't even notice people saying they should refrain from typing out certain things.

    Evidently our Australian bro, Zest D didn't get the memo. He just posted again what he has in his fridge. All that's missing is more pictures of various beers which I believe was in another thread.

    I didn't see where he said he was forced. I'll go back and read it again.

    There is a balance between the letter and the Spirit. We must know the letter, but we must also be led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14).

    Some things can't be taught, they must be caught from the Holy Spirit directly through fellowship with Him.
    Forward - March! Eyes - Rise!

    To the Battlefield - He who wins souls is wise!

    Del A Ray

  13. #249
    HCR Veterano Wes Pendleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROB View Post

    Wes, notice I'm using words like "the majority" not "all" because I realize that not everyone even posted in that thread. I didn't even notice people saying they should refrain from typing out certain things.

    Evidently our Australian bro, Zest D didn't get the memo. He just posted again what he has in his fridge. All that's missing is more pictures of various beers which I believe was in another thread.

    I didn't see where he said he was forced. I'll go back and read it again.

    There is a balance between the letter and the Spirit. We must know the letter, but we must also be led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14).

    Some things can't be taught, they must be caught from the Holy Spirit directly through fellowship with Him.
    Even still, I really don't believe you know the hearts of the "majority" bro, that's just my opinion.

    As far as things being "caught", I believe this is where you and I disagree. I fellowship with the Holy Spirit directly WHEN I read the Scripts. If I don't believe that the Holy Spirit speaks directly to me through God's word, then what am I reading it for? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we can't have time in meditation, where the LORD deals with us, but why would God handcraft an awesome masterpiece, only to leave tid bits out for Him to share with us later? That means that the Scripts don't fulfill us, and I totally don't hold that to be true in any way.

  14. #250
    HCR Ole' Head jnorman888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROB View Post

    Wes, notice I'm using words like "the majority" not "all" because I realize that not everyone even posted in that thread. I didn't even notice people saying they should refrain from typing out certain things.

    Evidently our Australian bro, Zest D didn't get the memo. He just posted again what he has in his fridge. All that's missing is more pictures of various beers which I believe was in another thread.

    I didn't see where he said he was forced. I'll go back and read it again.

    There is a balance between the letter and the Spirit. We must know the letter, but we must also be led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14).

    Some things can't be taught, they must be caught from the Holy Spirit directly through fellowship with Him.
    So should every christian outside America stop talking about Beers and Ales because it might harm some American Christians who think it's sin?

    Most Christians outside America drink and they don't see anything wrong with it. It is only in American religious circles do we see some calling it sin.

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  16. #251
    HCR Veterano KFB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnorman888 View Post
    So should every christian outside America stop talking about Beers and Ales because it might harm some American Christians who think it's sin?

    Most Christians outside America drink and they don't see anything wrong with it. It is only in American religious circles do we see some calling it sin.
    This is an excellent question Bro. John. I'm curious to read Bro. Rob's response as I know he's spent time outside of this country, I've also spent time in Latin America as well as Europe and seen a different response to alcohol.
    Cultural Renaissance Through Spiritual Revival- http://www.blackpastor.org

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  18. #252
    HCR Veterano ROB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnorman888 View Post
    So should every christian outside America stop talking about Beers and Ales because it might harm some American Christians who think it's sin?

    Most Christians outside America drink and they don't see anything wrong with it. It is only in American religious circles do we see some calling it sin.

    I'll be willing to bet you that there are Christians outside of America who are caused to stumble by the Christians in those countries who use their liberty to drink alcohol.

    I have been to Germany, spent a little time in Romania and in Bosnia and I have seen the same thing that's here. My wife is Mexican and ya'll definitely don't want to hear what she thinks of the majority of the posters in these threads.

    What is supposed to be our guide? Various cultures or the Holy Spirit and the scriptures anyways?

    Romans 15:1
    We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
    2Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
    3For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.


    Are you guys like tearing Romans 15 out of your Bibles or something?

    KFB offered apologies to SOM for coming across as uncaring about the fact that he stumbled and that's cool. Now as for you, Mr. History, why do you ignore what Romans 15:1-3 is saying and believe it's okay to exercise your liberty to someone else's demise? How about reading Romans 14 without ignoring Romans 15.

    Food is necessary to live, alcohol is not. Why are we comparing food to alcohol if we aren't trying to justify doing whatever pleases us with no thought of how it affects others?

    No matter what country Christians are in, the same Bible and Holy Spirit should apply or do you think we should abandon caring for people who may not able to handle drinking one beer because the Christians in that culture don't care about them?
    Last edited by ROB; 09-29-2010 at 10:03 PM.
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  20. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Pendleton View Post
    Even still, I really don't believe you know the hearts of the "majority" bro, that's just my opinion.

    As far as things being "caught", I believe this is where you and I disagree. I fellowship with the Holy Spirit directly WHEN I read the Scripts. If I don't believe that the Holy Spirit speaks directly to me through God's word, then what am I reading it for? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we can't have time in meditation, where the LORD deals with us, but why would God handcraft an awesome masterpiece, only to leave tid bits out for Him to share with us later? That means that the Scripts don't fulfill us, and I totally don't hold that to be true in any way.

    Well, I can know what's in the hearts of the majority of the people who posted in that thread. Maybe that's more accurate.

    Matthew 12:
    34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
    35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.


    So from people expressing their opinions I can tell where there heart is on various issues...................unless of course they are lying.

    Only God can truly know, but we can get a general idea of one's heart by listening to what they say in abundance.

    I'll address the other portion of your statement when we have a chance to talk.
    Forward - March! Eyes - Rise!

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    Del A Ray

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROB View Post

    I'll be willing to bet you that there are Christians outside of America who are caused to stumble by the Christians in those countries who use their liberty to drink alcohol.

    I have been to Germany, spent a little time in Romania and in Bosnia and I have seen the same thing that's here. My wife is Mexican and ya'll definitely don't want to hear what she thinks of the majority of the posters in these threads.

    What is supposed to be our guide? Various cultures or the Holy Spirit and the scriptures anyways?

    Romans 15:1
    We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
    2Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
    3For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.


    Are you guys like tearing Romans 15 out of your Bibles or something?

    KFB offered apologies to SOM for coming across as uncaring about the fact that he stumbled and that's cool. Now as for you, Mr. History, why do you ignore what Romans 15:1-3 is saying and believe it's okay to exercise your liberty to someone else's demise? How about reading Romans 14 without ignoring Romans 15.

    Food is necessary to live, alcohol is not. Why are we comparing food to alcohol if we aren't trying to justify doing whatever pleases us with no thought of how it affects others?

    No matter what country Christians are in, the same Bible and Holy Spirit should apply or do you think we should abandon caring for people who may not able to handle drinking one beer because the Christians in that culture don't care about them?
    We should care for them, but we shouldn't pretend that we believe it to be sin like them. The idea of it being sin is a new idea. You seem to want to make this idea normative for all.

    I use to help a ministry in the uptown area of Pittsburgh that cared for the homeless. Like you they were against alcohol and so they served nonalcoholic wine for communion. They also changed their service hours from 10 to 12 to 5 to 7 pm.(because of the alcohol at those gatherings during football games) They did this because most of the homeless they cared for were also alcoholics. The Episcopal priest who was over the ministry was also a former homeless person who use to drink alot, and so I do understand where you are coming from. I disagreed with the whole nonalcoholic wine communion approach, but I do understand the whole sensitivity issue.

    I think people can go to far in the other direction when it comes to the sensitivity issue. There needs to be a balance.

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  23. #255
    HCR Ole' Head The Light Within's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Pendleton View Post
    I actually didn't want to use it, but I actually went ahead and activated it for the first time. Wish it didn't have to be, but erruh... it just had to happen.
    I would never use the ignore button on anyone, no matter who they are.
    The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / Datin

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    HCR Ole' Head The Light Within's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    Brother, you seriously are lacking in patience and wisdom. Why do you intentionally mock people and prod them with a stick to provoke their wrath? Then, when someone actually tries to dialog with you, you tap out and run away only to show up again in another thread and repeat the process. This makes it very hard for anyone to take anything you say serious and furthermore its a hypocritical display of your own "lack of love" that you so frequently rant about.. I am at a loss for words.
    I have been called a straight out liar and a weaker brother among other things. Have I called any on here out personally. Have I attacked and put down just to put down? I said that the truth will always come out and it did. Of course no one has anything to say after that because they loved to hear someone call me out which is why they thank that person so much for doing so. Many people here hide behind other people here because they are to afraid to take a real stand. It's so much easier to go along with the rest of the crowd for fear of being an outcast. I'm not here to make "friends" I'm here to stand for the truth of the word of God, and if that makes me a liar and a weaker brother, then so be it. I have some PM's from people that would make your skin crawl, shall I post them too, or would I be a liar on that as well? There is a reason I am not replying to many of the PM's I am getting. I have been told to back off and get in line with everyone here. There are things I won't repeat because they shouldn't be repeated. I have been treated very bad for going against the grain of everyone here. and if that's the case so be it. When everyone likes you, you know there is a problem right?
    Last edited by The Light Within; 09-30-2010 at 02:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stone View Post
    For the same reasons that I do not smoke cigarettes and cigars, I do not drink alcohol.

    For me it's an issue of wisdom. If someone were culturally raised in the context of occasional wine (like someone in France) that's one thing. But I wouldn't encourage any fresh 21 year old to take up alcohol sipping simply because the Bible doesn't condemn it's use because there's FAR too many chances that it will be abused. There's no need to introduce yourself to something that has so many possibilities of stumbling to it, all to hit a sweet spot on the tongue.

    So for some young cultured kid who's family always had a touch of wine with their bread and cheese, I might have a different outlook. But for us in America where you had to wait until you were 21...I just don't personally see the wisdom in saying "hey, since I'm old enough now, let me try this thing that I've been banned from!". That doesn't really jive as consistant "let me see how much of God I can attain and how much I can avoid any temptation".

    There are also places in the world where using certain narcotics isn't illegal, would we also endorse a casual use of that simply because "the Bible doesn't really condemn it"?

    In fact, what we call narcotics, cocain, the main active ingredient, opium, was used commonly in off the shelf remedies over the centuries. Nevertheless, I would never recommend to someone to take a sniff, or a whiff of the narcotic (assuming it werent illegal today in America).

    I think the right question when approaching alcohol is not "how much of it can I drink and not offend and not be drunk with", but "how much can I flee tempation and the appearance of evil?"

    Im not commin at nobody's neck or nothing, im just sayin
    Thanks tony for laying it down proper.
    The Bible said for Jesus we're ambassadors / So it's time to rip off this muzzle of fear and passiveness / Datin

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