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Ras
05-16-2013, 09:45 PM
porn?? I'm listening to this Saiko Woods discussion on this song. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hiswordhisway/2013/05/10/real-talk-thursday So far one person had concerns that porn addiction isn't something you should confess publicly on a record. Confess to brother and sisters in your church. Or to God. 2nd concern would be with his wife and embarassing her by confessing this. 3rd, he went into too much detail about that sin. Are these legit concerns?

Here is the song for those who ain't heard it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yU7gsfw9kE

LyricalTheologyFan
05-16-2013, 10:25 PM
I just listened. He was transparent. Timothy Brindle has discussed the issue with porn on a few songs in the past. Why would it be a problem now?

Ras
05-16-2013, 10:38 PM
I just listened. He was transparent. Timothy Brindle has discussed the issue with porn on a few songs in the past. Why would it be a problem now?

In Tim's case those were things he struggled with in the past. From the show, they implying that IF he's writing from the perspective of he's struggling now, then that's a problem. From the show sorta like they compared it to a pastor. If a pastor said those things publicly then people would say he had a problem. Step down. Etc. That seemed to be the line of thinking from the show.

Apex
05-16-2013, 10:43 PM
I'm listening to this Saiko Woods discussion on this song.
After the conversation I had with this dude a while back, I'm not really sure if he's actually a Christian.

AudienceOfOne
05-16-2013, 10:45 PM
This is very healthy. I am sure he discussed it with his wife before releasing this. I really have no idea how this could cause anyone to stumble so I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Ras
05-16-2013, 10:45 PM
After the conversation I had with this dude a while back, I'm not really sure if he's actually a Christian.

Convo with who?

Apex
05-16-2013, 10:46 PM
Convo with who?
Saiko Woods.

Ras
05-16-2013, 10:50 PM
Saiko Woods.

oh... I'm sure Expo will have something to say about that...

LyricalTheologyFan
05-16-2013, 11:24 PM
After the conversation I had with this dude a while back, I'm not really sure if he's actually a Christian.

Saiko Woods? You know he's a pastor in Texas, right?

Kenya3H
05-17-2013, 12:40 AM
Is this song Autobiographical or is he painting a picture of what its like to struggle with porn? Does anyone have an interview where he directly discussed this? I think this needs to be clarified before engaging in any discussion of whether or not Bizzle should be in public ministry. I like the track but i see how it could cause controversy.

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 01:16 AM
In Tim's case those were things he struggled with in the past. From the show, they implying that IF he's writing from the perspective of he's struggling now, then that's a problem. From the show sorta like they compared it to a pastor. If a pastor said those things publicly then people would say he had a problem. Step down. Etc. That seemed to be the line of thinking from the show.

Bizzle's not a pastor.

Kenya3H
05-17-2013, 01:33 AM
Bizzle's not a pastor.

That too!

Ras
05-17-2013, 07:13 AM
Bizzle's not a pastor.

They compared it to a pastor. Not that he was a pastor.

Ras
05-17-2013, 07:13 AM
Is this song Autobiographical or is he painting a picture of what its like to struggle with porn? Does anyone have an interview where he directly discussed this? I think this needs to be clarified before engaging in any discussion of whether or not Bizzle should be in public ministry. I like the track but i see how it could cause controversy.

yes, it's autobiographical. The interview I posted explains that.

The_Expositor
05-17-2013, 07:45 AM
I don't have anything to say about his conversation with Saiko. I'm not privy to that.

Ras
05-17-2013, 07:59 AM
I don't have anything to say about his conversation with Saiko. I'm not privy to that.

Well, since he was friend I thought you might have something to say about beliefs. Apex came away uncertain. But I guess not...

The apologist
05-17-2013, 09:38 AM
Saiko Woods.

What makes you doubt his salvation?

Moody
05-17-2013, 09:51 AM
I see no problem with him talking about it; after all, I'm sure some of you on this board secretly looked at porn last night and masturbated. It's a major problem amongst the brothers. Besides, for him, I'm sure it was therapeutic to get it out there.

The_Expositor
05-17-2013, 10:21 AM
I think you guys may have read it wrong or he worded it wrong. I don't think he was saying that Saiko wasn't a believer, but that he talked with Saiko and discussed Bizzle and came away thinking Bizzle may not be a believer. But, I could be wrong.

Ras, that's why I didn't have anything to say. I thought Apex was talking about Bizzle.

The_Expositor
05-17-2013, 10:22 AM
But, then again, maybe he was talking about Saiko. If so, I'm not sure how he'd come to that conclusion.

Apex
05-17-2013, 10:51 AM
What makes you doubt his salvation?

Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people..

KFB
05-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people..

Never heard him speak about Shai like that. I'll ask him to come explain his side here.

The_Expositor
05-17-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't remember Saiko saying anything about shai in that regard. I also don't know Saiko to blatantly ignore Scripture and I find it a bit hard to believe he'd call you stupid or an idiot. But, I hit him up a little while ago so that he can come and speak for himself if he chooses to.

The apologist
05-17-2013, 12:54 PM
Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people..

Huh really? Can u provide a link? I don't know him personally but I know of him. That is interesting.

The apologist
05-17-2013, 12:55 PM
Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people..
Huh that's interesting, i know who he is but I don't know him personally

The apologist
05-17-2013, 12:56 PM
Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people..
Huh that's interesting, i know who he is but I don't know him personally

iMark
05-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Saiko and I have talked on the phone many times about many issues. We even disagree sometimes, but I have not found any reason to doubt his profession of faith in our Lord Jesus. Oh yeah, he has the highest regard for Shai.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 02:48 PM
Saiko and I have talked on the phone many times about many issues. We even disagree sometimes, but I have not found any reason to doubt his profession of faith in our Lord Jesus. Oh yeah, he has the highest regard for Shai.

WOW! FINALLY ABLE TO COME IN HERE:). Thanks Bro for the support! Now that that's outta the way, I'd love to see Apex's proof of me calling people idiots about Lecrae and Shai. I wouldn't call Apex an idiot, but I will call him a LIAR! Bring your proof bruh!

Saiko
05-17-2013, 02:48 PM
Saiko and I have talked on the phone many times about many issues. We even disagree sometimes, but I have not found any reason to doubt his profession of faith in our Lord Jesus. Oh yeah, he has the highest regard for Shai.

WOW! FINALLY ABLE TO COME IN HERE:). Thanks Bro for the support! Now that that's outta the way, I'd love to see Apex's proof of me calling people idiots about Lecrae and Shai. I wouldn't call Apex an idiot, but I will call him a LIAR! Bring your proof bruh!

iMark
05-17-2013, 02:52 PM
WOW! FINALLY ABLE TO COME IN HERE:). Thanks Bro for the support! Now that that's outta the way, I'd love to see Apex's proof of me calling people idiots about Lecrae and Shai. I wouldn't call Apex an idiot, but I will call him a LIAR! Bring your proof bruh!

You can say that again! :biglaugh:

The apologist
05-17-2013, 03:01 PM
WOW! FINALLY ABLE TO COME IN HERE:). Thanks Bro for the support! Now that that's outta the way, I'd love to see Apex's proof of me calling people idiots about Lecrae and Shai. I wouldn't call Apex an idiot, but I will call him a LIAR! Bring your proof bruh!
Glad you cleared that up bro cause those are some serious charges. Btw I had a great time listening to your show last night.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 03:55 PM
Glad you cleared that up bro cause those are some serious charges. Btw I had a great time listening to your show last night.

Doc! It's blatant, fallacious, unfounded and unwarranted statements like Apex's that get dude's in SERIOUS trouble! Folk have been incarcerated and killed for a lie! And this dude has nothing else to do but to premeditatively come on blogs and make statements w/o providing a lick of proof! NOW! Since I know for a fact that Apex has NOTHING against me nor have I ever called anyone who disagreed with me about Lecrae and Shai "idiots" or verbally insulted them, Apex isn't only a LIAR, but a SLANDERER and a FOOL!

He who conceals hatred has lying lips, and he who spreads slander is a fool (Prov 10:18).

May a slanderer not be established in the earth; may evil hunt the violent man speedily (Psa. 140:11).

Saiko
05-17-2013, 04:08 PM
After the conversation I had with this dude a while back, I'm not really sure if he's actually a Christian.

I'm waiting on your proof of your accusations against me on the following charges:

1. Objective, biblical evidence of me not being a Christian

2. Objective, biblical evidence of me verbally insulting supporters of Lecrae & Shai Linne calling them "idiots" and saying Lecrae & Shai Linne aren't Christians

It shouldn't take you that long to provide your evidence either dude, since you were so quick on the trigger to accuse me you should already have it with you right?

FOR ALL THOSE WHO READ THIS THREAD, I CHALLENGE APEX TO A THEOLOGICAL DEBATE ON MY SHOW, LIVE (TBA) TO PROVE BEFORE THE ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST THAT I'M NOT A BELIEVER!!!!! DO YOU WISH TO ENGAGE APEX? I'M READY WHEN YOU ARE!

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 04:11 PM
Doc! It's blatant, fallacious, unfounded and unwarranted statements like Apex's that get dude's in SERIOUS trouble! Folk have been incarcerated and killed for a lie! And this dude has nothing else to do but to premeditatively come on blogs and make statements w/o providing a lick of proof! NOW! Since I know for a fact that Apex has NOTHING against me nor have I ever called anyone who disagreed with me about Lecrae and Shai "idiots" or verbally insulted them, Apex isn't only a LIAR, but a SLANDERER and a FOOL!

He who conceals hatred has lying lips, and he who spreads slander is a fool (Prov 10:18).

May a slanderer not be established in the earth; may evil hunt the violent man speedily (Psa. 140:11).

So this is supposed to be helping your case?

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 04:13 PM
They compared it to a pastor. Not that he was a pastor.

I'm aware of that, but that comparison doesn't work. Might make their argument sound like it has merit, but in reality they're comparing apples and oranges when they get into that.

J.Waters
05-17-2013, 04:15 PM
Saiko, Don't you think you're jumping the gun a lil to quick? Give the dude some space and time to reply.. Maybe it was someone with a similar nickname or maybe he confusing you with someone else.. Could just be a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Maybe he's wrong for not making sure its you or not posting any link, but for you to defend yourself and calling him out being a fool, liar, slanderer without getting the facts straight first isn't a good look for a pastor..

benjamin
05-17-2013, 04:26 PM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/wtf/wuhwhat.gif

Saiko
05-17-2013, 04:46 PM
Saiko, Don't you think you're jumping the gun a lil to quick? Give the dude some space and time to reply.. Maybe it was someone with a similar nickname or maybe he confusing you with someone else.. Could just be a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Maybe he's wrong for not making sure its you or not posting any link, but for you to defend yourself and calling him out being a fool, liar, slanderer without getting the facts straight first isn't a good look for a pastor..

I'm not "jumping the gun" at all. I don't even come on this site let alone did I know that my name was even mentioned until some other brothers who REALLY KNOW my character and reputation as a pastor/christian approached me about it b/c they know the dangerous effects of lies, slander and gossip. The FACTS are that I NEVER called anyone those names regarding Lecrae or Shai Linne....PERIOD! Now, it's laughable that you tell me it isn't a good look for me to call Apex a fool, liar and a slanderer when that's EXACTLY what the Bible says he is! This is a Christian blog isn't it? Therefore, I will use Scripture when addressing issues like this.

Btw, someone asked Apex WHO was he talking about and he said "Saiko Woods". Not sure if you done a google search under my name, but my name is pretty unique dude. The only person who I know has BOTH my first and last name is a dude who lived outside the states and he was on the Wedding Channel and his wife was the same name as my wife, but his name was spelled slightly different. Also, who do you know that has a show like mine? Therefore, my response to Apex is based on statements that he made about me like the one shown below.

"Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people.."

Bottom line, I take my character and reputation seriously as a pastor and gauge which hills I want to die on. This one for me given the seriousness of the charges like "The Apologist" said compels me to respond and so I did.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 04:47 PM
Saiko, Don't you think you're jumping the gun a lil to quick? Give the dude some space and time to reply.. Maybe it was someone with a similar nickname or maybe he confusing you with someone else.. Could just be a misunderstanding or miscommunication. Maybe he's wrong for not making sure its you or not posting any link, but for you to defend yourself and calling him out being a fool, liar, slanderer without getting the facts straight first isn't a good look for a pastor..

I'm not "jumping the gun" at all. I don't even come on this site let alone did I know that my name was even mentioned until some other brothers who REALLY KNOW my character and reputation as a pastor/christian approached me about it b/c they know the dangerous effects of lies, slander and gossip. The FACTS are that I NEVER called anyone those names regarding Lecrae or Shai Linne....PERIOD! Now, it's laughable that you tell me it isn't a good look for me to call Apex a fool, liar and a slanderer when that's EXACTLY what the Bible says he is! This is a Christian blog isn't it? Therefore, I will use Scripture when addressing issues like this.

Btw, someone asked Apex WHO was he talking about and he said "Saiko Woods". Not sure if you done a google search under my name, but my name is pretty unique dude. The only person who I know has BOTH my first and last name is a dude who lived outside the states and he was on the Wedding Channel and his wife was the same name as my wife, but his name was spelled slightly different. Also, who do you know that has a show like mine? Therefore, my response to Apex is based on statements that he made about me like the one shown below.

"Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people.."

Bottom line, I take my character and reputation seriously as a pastor and gauge which hills I want to die on. This one for me given the seriousness of the charges like "The Apologist" said compels me to respond and so I did.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 04:50 PM
So this is supposed to be helping your case?

Yep! I have Scripture to support my polemic and that's all I need.

Ras
05-17-2013, 04:59 PM
I'm aware of that, but that comparison doesn't work. Might make their argument sound like it has merit, but in reality they're comparing apples and oranges when they get into that.

Not saying whether I agree or disagree but I'm sure some would say why wouldn't that standard apply to all Christians.

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 05:02 PM
Yep! I have Scripture to support my polemic and that's all I need.

I'm not attacking you or anything like that. This is the first I've ever heard of you. Just seems that if you're accused of something like what APEX said, that your response to that specific accusation would possibly lead you to have more grace in your speech. Not only just because it "helps your case" but also because that's what we're commanded to do in scripture. But, I can't tell you how to respond to a situation. Just seemed out of place to me in that kind of situation is all. I truly hope you two can get whatever this is resolved and move forward with life.

J.Waters
05-17-2013, 05:04 PM
So my reply is laughable while I'm expressing a concern on your behalf... A little grace in your speech wouldn't hurt.

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 05:07 PM
Not saying whether I agree or disagree but I'm sure some would say why wouldn't that standard apply to all Christians.

Shocking. :)


There's a clear cut way pointed out in scripture for issues like that to be handled when it comes to pastors (which once again, Bizzle isn't), but not laymen. The standards are obviously different in how it should be dealt with (not with how we should live our lives, though there are certain things pastors/elders are held to a higher standard on). Righteous living is something we're all called to, without a doubt. That's not what was brought up though.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 05:13 PM
Shocking. :)


There's a clear cut way pointed out in scripture for issues like that to be handled when it comes to pastors (which once again, Bizzle isn't), but not laymen. The standards are obviously different in how it should be dealt with (not with how we should live our lives, though there are certain things pastors/elders are held to a higher standard on). Righteous living is something we're all called to, without a doubt. That's not what was brought up though.

Do you believe the words of our Lord when He said "To whom much is given, much is required (Lk. 12:48)? Would that apply to ALL Christians including rappers like Bizzle too?

Saiko
05-17-2013, 05:16 PM
Sexual sin of any kind that's ongoing and not overcome will disqualify a believer from service. Until we see Rappers as heralds of truth and hold them accountable for what they do, we will always have this strange dichotomy of which sins disqualify rappers vs preachers when BOTH are one in the same b/c of the PLATFORM both people have been given.

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 05:19 PM
Do you believe the words of our Lord when He said "To whom much is given, much is required (Lk. 12:48)? Would that apply to ALL Christians including rappers like Bizzle too?

Of course I believe the words of our Lord. That's not what is being talked about here though. What was being talked about is comparing Bizzle to a pastor in regards to how he should be held accountable for certain words/actions. Are not deacons/elders/pastors held to a different set of discipline than laymen? That's what I'm referring to. Bizzle is a rapper who shared a struggle (whether in his own life or metaphorically, I don't know, because I've only heard the song once and didn't seek to find out the intent behind it). I don't think that's in the same ballpark as a pastor being in sin and sharing it, which would of course result in discipline and possible stepping down from his position. Apples and oranges.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 05:26 PM
Of course I believe the words of our Lord. That's not what is being talked about here though. What was being talked about is comparing Bizzle to a pastor in regards to how he should be held accountable for certain words/actions. Are not deacons/elders/pastors held to a different set of discipline than laymen? That's what I'm referring to. Bizzle is a rapper who shared a struggle (whether in his own life or metaphorically, I don't know, because I've only heard the song once and didn't seek to find out the intent behind it). I don't think that's in the same ballpark as a pastor being in sin and sharing it, which would of course result in discipline and possible stepping down from his position. Apples and oranges.

And where do we see "laymen" in the Scripture as being given a pass for sexual sin of ANY KIND once it's been exposed. Your position would draw some very interesting conclusions for "laymen" who want to serve in the church, but they struggle with sexual sin, but want to serve in their church. Are you saying that normal "laymen" get a pass on that b/c they're not elders/deacons? I think the Word would say differently (1 Pet. 2:12).

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 05:28 PM
Sexual sin of any kind that's ongoing and not overcome will disqualify a believer from service. Until we see Rappers as heralds of truth and hold them accountable for what they do, we will always have this strange dichotomy of which sins disqualify rappers vs preachers when BOTH are one in the same b/c of the PLATFORM both people have been given.

Ah, I think this is where the fundamental disagreement is between us (when it comes to this issue), and this is an ongoing, long standing divide in the Christian HipHop community. We disagree on the equality of rappers and preachers, which is a much longer discussion than I'd like to have (again) on the internet. Clearly you're free to have your stance on it, and I'm certainly not here to sway you one way or the other. Tried doing that for too long and it seems most people on either side of the issue are not willing to even truly hear a case for either stance without just talking past it. So, God bless and take care.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 05:32 PM
Ah, I think this is where the fundamental disagreement is between us (when it comes to this issue), and this is an ongoing, long standing divide in the Christian HipHop community. We disagree on the equality of rappers and preachers, which is a much longer discussion than I'd like to have (again) on the internet. Clearly you're free to have your stance on it, and I'm certainly not here to sway you one way or the other. Tried doing that for too long and it seems most people on either side of the issue are not willing to even truly hear a case for either stance without just talking past it. So, God bless and take care.

No problem. Thanks for the dialogue nonetheless. I appreciate it.

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 05:34 PM
And where do we see "laymen" in the Scripture as being given a pass for sexual sin of ANY KIND once it's been exposed. Your position would draw some very interesting conclusions for "laymen" who want to serve in the church, but they struggle with sexual sin, but want to serve in their church. Are you saying that normal "laymen" get a pass on that b/c they're not elders/deacons? I think the Word would say differently (1 Pet. 2:12).

No. As I said to Ras, righteous living is commanded to us all. Please don't try to create a possible "stance" of mine that doesn't really exist. I'll give you a pass because you really aren't aware of my stances on certain things (there's a thread on this message board where I talk about the importance of laymen in any type of leadership position being held accountable and their misgivings being disciplined). Sexual sin is never given a pass, and I never said it was. I just said that in regards to discipline, Bizzle is not to be treated the same way that a pastor would be. That was literally my main contention with what Ras said (which I guess he got from your show?), because the Bible does in fact talk about how to deal with a pastor in sin. But, as I said, Bizzle is not a pastor.

Ras
05-17-2013, 05:35 PM
Sexual sin of any kind that's ongoing and not overcome will disqualify a believer from service. Until we see Rappers as heralds of truth and hold them accountable for what they do, we will always have this strange dichotomy of which sins disqualify rappers vs preachers when BOTH are one in the same b/c of the PLATFORM both people have been given.

I guess the question would be asked if that's the bibical standard, then what does overcome mean. Does it mean evidence is growth of sanctification? Or total delieverance where you don't fall in this area again? In Bizzle case, he'd go a week without pornography. Then a month. 3-4 months. One could say that's spiritual growth but is that overcoming? Or does overcome mean he this will is no longer a struggle at all. Where he no longer falls in this area at all?

Saiko
05-17-2013, 05:44 PM
No. As I said to Ras, righteous living is commanded to us all. Please don't try to create a possible "stance" of mine that doesn't really exist. I'll give you a pass because you really aren't aware of my stances on certain things (there's a thread on this message board where I talk about the importance of laymen in any type of leadership position being held accountable and their misgivings being disciplined). Sexual sin is never given a pass, and I never said it was. I just said that in regards to discipline, Bizzle is not to be treated the same way that a pastor would be. That was literally my main contention with what Ras said (which I guess he got from your show?), because the Bible does in fact talk about how to deal with a pastor in sin. But, as I said, Bizzle is not a pastor.

It [Bible] tells us how we are to deal with ANYONE in sexual sin. Not just pastors/leaders. And that's why alot of folk have issue with the church. One group is to be exposed for their sin and dealt with, while the other group plays innocent victim and rarely practices discipline in their lives to battle lust.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 05:55 PM
No. As I said to Ras, righteous living is commanded to us all. Please don't try to create a possible "stance" of mine that doesn't really exist. I'll give you a pass because you really aren't aware of my stances on certain things (there's a thread on this message board where I talk about the importance of laymen in any type of leadership position being held accountable and their misgivings being disciplined). Sexual sin is never given a pass, and I never said it was. I just said that in regards to discipline, Bizzle is not to be treated the same way that a pastor would be. That was literally my main contention with what Ras said (which I guess he got from your show?), because the Bible does in fact talk about how to deal with a pastor in sin. But, as I said, Bizzle is not a pastor.

It [Bible] tells us how we are to deal with ANYONE in sexual sin. Not just pastors/leaders. And that's why alot of folk have issue with the church. One group is to be exposed for their sin and dealt with, while the other group plays innocent victim and rarely practices discipline in their lives to battle lust.

Saiko
05-17-2013, 06:11 PM
I guess the question would be asked if that's the bibical standard, then what does overcome mean. Does it mean evidence is growth of sanctification? Or total delieverance where you don't fall in this area again? In Bizzle case, he'd go a week without pornography. Then a month. 3-4 months. One could say that's spiritual growth but is that overcoming? Or does overcome mean he this will is no longer a struggle at all. Where he no longer falls in this area at all?

Good question brother! Btw, "What up Doe" (I'm from tha "D" too:)! Sexual sin is a very peculiar sin that the Bible shows us that once it's exposed, it can become a sin which can disqualify a person (Prov. 6:32-33). Look at the lives of Samson, David & Solomon. Mighty men of God, but are remembered for their lack of self control in the area of sexuality. Struggling with sin is an issue ALL of us face. That's what's sanctification is about....progressive!

I remember Da Truth's sexual sin a few years back and how it rocked the Christian Rap community because of the influence this brother had and he stepped away for a minute to deal with his issues before he touched the mic again. Timothy Brindle with his confession of pride which caused him to step away from the mic also for a season. All I'm saying is that these dudes weren't pastors but I believe they understood the seriousness of the platform God gave them not to want to further defame/discredit the gospel or the name of Christ.

Cowboy
05-17-2013, 07:09 PM
It [Bible] tells us how we are to deal with ANYONE in sexual sin. Not just pastors/leaders. And that's why alot of folk have issue with the church. One group is to be exposed for their sin and dealt with, while the other group plays innocent victim and rarely practices discipline in their lives to battle lust.

Again, not saying there shouldn't be some sort of dealing with the situation (who knows, it's possible that Bizzle is under leadership at his home church for that very thing?). I'm saying that there IS a difference in how a pastor's discipline is handled and how a laymen is handled. Bizzle is not a pastor, so the correlation between the discipline is different. Not saying that discipline is avoided or not dealt with for laymen in sin. Absolutely, there are protocols for that as well, but they aren't the same thing, and that's pointed out in scripture. That's all I'm saying. I believe that the issue itself would have to be discussed with Bizzle (maybe you can interview him on your show) about what steps were taken in dealing with the sin and in the decision to reach the song. He's not the first artist to come out and say they're dealing with sin (sexual sin at that). He just happens to be the one who has done it right now.

Jason Bradfield
05-17-2013, 08:15 PM
Emcees are not Preachers.

Apex
05-17-2013, 11:04 PM
WOW! FINALLY ABLE TO COME IN HERE:). Thanks Bro for the support! Now that that's outta the way, I'd love to see Apex's proof of me calling people idiots about Lecrae and Shai. I wouldn't call Apex an idiot, but I will call him a LIAR! Bring your proof bruh!
Not sure what type of proof you're expecting to find here considering I don't keep records of internet conversations. I stand by everything I said before about your behavior towards others, including the many times you insulted people during the conversation. You also ignored scripture when it was presented to you by the people who you were ranting at, which is what made me question whether or not you were a Christian (& later I found out you were a "pastor"). Like I said before maybe something personal happened that day which made you act that way.. whatever the case it seems like you're calmer since you're no longer typing in all caps or ignoring what people here have to say.

DDaniels
05-18-2013, 02:22 AM
I can't prove whether or not what Apex said was true. However, it isn't difficult to imagine that the "Crae" part of this statement happened: "[Woods] saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians."

http://storify.com/TheRealDDaniels/saiko-vs-lecrae

undadog4eva
05-18-2013, 10:32 AM
I can't prove whether or not what Apex said was true. However, it isn't difficult to imagine that the "Crae" part of this statement happened: "[Woods] saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians."

http://storify.com/TheRealDDaniels/saiko-vs-lecrae

wow! This saiko cat be going in on crae! Lecrae is a false teacher?!

perhaps this dude might have a wrong definition of "false teacher"?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/085/283/philosoraptor.jpg?1291090164

E.Gordo
05-18-2013, 09:10 PM
If everyone really wants to help in this situation. Pray about it. Come to the Lord first, then talk one-on-one with your brother. You know the rest...
I learned this from a friend the other day: We are quick to point out faults in other people but are we changing anything by complaining or can God do something about it?
Also remove the log from your eye before you remove the speck from your brother's eye. That calls for being humble enough to examine yourself.
He also told me "are you going to part of the problem or part of the solution?"

Ras
05-18-2013, 09:19 PM
If everyone really wants to help in this situation. Pray about it. Come to the Lord first, then talk one-on-one with your brother. You know the rest...
I learned this from a friend the other day: We are quick to point out faults in other people but are we changing anything by complaining or can God do something about it?
Also remove the log from your eye before you remove the speck from your brother's eye. That calls for being humble enough to examine yourself.
He also told me "are you going to part of the problem or part of the solution?"

Which situation are you referring to?

E.Gordo
05-19-2013, 02:24 PM
I didn't read the whole post but I what I get from this is that a member here is claiming someone else is behaving improperly. So now the issue is on the board and maybe could've been resolved one on one behind the scenes. Anyway, if I'm wrong, don't mind me.

Moody
05-19-2013, 02:41 PM
I'm listening to Saiko Woods' broadcast (45 min in) and so far, I'm like what I hear from him. (still listening)

plainoleme
05-20-2013, 10:28 AM
porn?? I'm listening to this Saiko Woods discussion on this song. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hiswordhisway/2013/05/10/real-talk-thursday So far one person had concerns that porn addiction isn't something you should confess publicly on a record. Confess to brother and sisters in your church. Or to God. 2nd concern would be with his wife and embarassing her by confessing this. 3rd, he went into too much detail about that sin. Are these legit concerns?

Call me naive but now we're not allowed to confess sin? So I can't say I struggle with pride or depression?

Ras
05-20-2013, 10:36 AM
Call me naive but now we're not allowed to confess sin? So I can't say I struggle with pride or depression?

I guess they're saying who are you confess those things to?

Zema
05-20-2013, 11:01 AM
Call me naive but now we're not allowed to confess sin? So I can't say I struggle with pride or depression?

Christians rap about how they struggle w/ lust all the time.

plainoleme
05-20-2013, 11:15 AM
Christians rap about how they struggle w/ lust all the time.

That's why i dont get it... Flame said he struggled with porn, Truth pride (and a litany of other sins), and the list goes on...

eternal
05-20-2013, 11:58 AM
That's why i dont get it... Flame said he struggled with porn, Truth pride (and a litany of other sins), and the list goes on...

That is a great point. Is there a list that divides which sin we can openly discuss and which must remain quiet? Is this a biblical list? Or just a somebody's sense of "wisdom" on the matter?

At any rate, this is one sin that people don't confess, to a private confidant or to anyone else. This is one sin that many Christians take to the grave. They are ashamed, and don't want to admit it. So a song like this does a great work in the lives of these people. Bizzle traces out the addiction and the misery well enough. People can identify, and then the hope is they can likewise begin to identify with the confession part as well.

There really is no downside here. Let's encourage each other to expose sin, tearing away its bondage, and refusing it to have any burden over us.

Ras
05-20-2013, 12:04 PM
Well, Saiko addressed this when he said. Whether you buy the argument or not...


Sexual sin is a very peculiar sin that the Bible shows us that once it's exposed, it can become a sin which can disqualify a person (Prov. 6:32-33). Look at the lives of Samson, David & Solomon. Mighty men of God, but are remembered for their lack of self control in the area of sexuality. Struggling with sin is an issue ALL of us face. That's what's sanctification is about....progressive!

I remember Da Truth's sexual sin a few years back and how it rocked the Christian Rap community because of the influence this brother had and he stepped away for a minute to deal with his issues before he touched the mic again. Timothy Brindle with his confession of pride which caused him to step away from the mic also for a season. All I'm saying is that these dudes weren't pastors but I believe they understood the seriousness of the platform God gave them not to want to further defame/discredit the gospel or the name of Christ

eternal
05-20-2013, 12:26 PM
Well, Saiko addressed this when he said. Whether you buy the argument or not...

Think that through. It doesn't make much sense...


Sexual sin is a very peculiar sin that the Bible shows us that once it's exposed, it can become a sin which can disqualify a person (Prov. 6:32-33).


We know this does not speak about disqualification from salvation, because the cross bears even this (Matthew 21:31-32).

Does it mean disqualification from ministry or even a good reputation in the church? 2 Corinthians 6:11 indicates that those who were sexually immoral, have indeed found good standing in the church.

Even the examples he gives are perplexing:


Look at the lives of Samson, David & Solomon. Mighty men of God, but are remembered for their lack of self control in the area of sexuality. Struggling with sin is an issue ALL of us face. That's what's sanctification is about....progressive!

Samson certainly did lose his judgeship, but it had much more to do than just his sexual immorality, and David is known for his sexual infidelity, however he was never disqualified from office, or even from a good reputation.

What he seems to be saying at the point of these examples is that they have had to bear the burden of this sin, which is a mangled reputation. Yet should this be our interest in not confessing? No one sought to protect David's reputation or Solomon's. It was put out for all to see and learn from. So apparently a passion for truth and helping others is more valuable than safeguarding one's own reputation.

The only disqualification that sexual sin has is from an office holder in the church, elder/deacon (1 Tim. 3:2, 12).

So the Proverb gives a general warning about the dangers of such sin (and all sin, to be sure). However, we know that it is true of the sin itself, and NOT JUST sin that has been revealed. That is not mentioned in the text. So a hidden sin is just as dangerous as an exposed sin, and perhaps even more dangerous (Prov. 28:13).


I remember Da Truth's sexual sin a few years back and how it rocked the Christian Rap community because of the influence this brother had and he stepped away for a minute to deal with his issues before he touched the mic again. Timothy Brindle with his confession of pride which caused him to step away from the mic also for a season. All I'm saying is that these dudes weren't pastors but I believe they understood the seriousness of the platform God gave them not to want to further defame/discredit the gospel or the name of Christ

This is a very valid reasoning. But why is it limited to sexual sin? This is the trouble. If a person is caught up, they really need to pour themselves into recovery. We don't exactly know what Bizzle is doing to confront this sin, but putting himself on public blast is a big step. We don't even know what Brindle did, we just read between the lines. It was kept private for the most part. Da Truth got caught, right? So they needed to work that out, with their wives, families, church, etc.

Bizzle using his struggle as a means to encourage others to fight the hold of sin is a good thing. And this sitting, still working thing is in the eye of the beholder, but there is no law. And Bizzle certainly is fighting, and in the process helping others to fight. Props to him.

EBro
05-23-2013, 11:38 AM
Doc! It's blatant, fallacious, unfounded and unwarranted statements like Apex's that get dude's in SERIOUS trouble! Folk have been incarcerated and killed for a lie! And this dude has nothing else to do but to premeditatively come on blogs and make statements w/o providing a lick of proof! NOW! Since I know for a fact that Apex has NOTHING against me nor have I ever called anyone who disagreed with me about Lecrae and Shai "idiots" or verbally insulted them, Apex isn't only a LIAR, but a SLANDERER and a FOOL!

He who conceals hatred has lying lips, and he who spreads slander is a fool (Prov 10:18).

May a slanderer not be established in the earth; may evil hunt the violent man speedily (Psa. 140:11).


I'm waiting on your proof of your accusations against me on the following charges:

1. Objective, biblical evidence of me not being a Christian

2. Objective, biblical evidence of me verbally insulting supporters of Lecrae & Shai Linne calling them "idiots" and saying Lecrae & Shai Linne aren't Christians

It shouldn't take you that long to provide your evidence either dude, since you were so quick on the trigger to accuse me you should already have it with you right?

FOR ALL THOSE WHO READ THIS THREAD, I CHALLENGE APEX TO A THEOLOGICAL DEBATE ON MY SHOW, LIVE (TBA) TO PROVE BEFORE THE ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST THAT I'M NOT A BELIEVER!!!!! DO YOU WISH TO ENGAGE APEX? I'M READY WHEN YOU ARE!


I'm not "jumping the gun" at all. I don't even come on this site let alone did I know that my name was even mentioned until some other brothers who REALLY KNOW my character and reputation as a pastor/christian approached me about it b/c they know the dangerous effects of lies, slander and gossip. The FACTS are that I NEVER called anyone those names regarding Lecrae or Shai Linne....PERIOD! Now, it's laughable that you tell me it isn't a good look for me to call Apex a fool, liar and a slanderer when that's EXACTLY what the Bible says he is! This is a Christian blog isn't it? Therefore, I will use Scripture when addressing issues like this.

Btw, someone asked Apex WHO was he talking about and he said "Saiko Woods". Not sure if you done a google search under my name, but my name is pretty unique dude. The only person who I know has BOTH my first and last name is a dude who lived outside the states and he was on the Wedding Channel and his wife was the same name as my wife, but his name was spelled slightly different. Also, who do you know that has a show like mine? Therefore, my response to Apex is based on statements that he made about me like the one shown below.

"Had a discussion for over an hour with him and a bunch of others on his blog, where people were questioning a lot of what this guy was saying. Things like him saying popular artists like Shai and Crae were fake and wern't really Christians, just outlandish statements and whenever people asked him to explain how or why people were fake he would either attack them or go on a rant. He would say things like "show me scripture" proving what you guys are saying and when we did give him quotes, word for word from the bible, he'd ignore it or call us idiots and stupid, etc. I was pretty skeptical for a while and then I realized the dude was actually a "pastor". I don't know what was going on with him, personal issues or whatever, but how can someone being a pastor say scripture is wrong or doesn't apply when it goes against what you believe? Like this guy was blatantly ignoring scripture and insulting people.."

Bottom line, I take my character and reputation seriously as a pastor and gauge which hills I want to die on. This one for me given the seriousness of the charges like "The Apologist" said compels me to respond and so I did.



Saiko, you gave Apex all the evidence he needed by your responses of this board. He didn't call you a name to defame you, he observed your behavior and came to a conclusion where he was unsure if you were a christian. He didn't say you were not a christian, he said he was unsure. Big difference. He went into a little detail about the internet convo to explain himself a little more. You come on here and start blasting away at dude, basically proving his point. At what point do you stop and ask yourself, 'What am I doing to cause someone to question the validity of who I say I am?' A few other people have come on to question your approach and suggest some grace should appear in your response. Did you heed wise counsel? No, you use the Word of God as a battering ram as oppose to medicine. Even Satan uses scripture for his own purposes, so your use of scripture does not mean you are correct in your use of it. You are abusing the Word and the use of it and I take exception to that. Now you said you never spoke against Shai and Lecrae, so that makes Apex a liar, right? So should I assume your twitter account was hacked based on the evidence DDaniels brought to the thread?

The wise counsel that Cowboy and others brought up comes from Proverbs 15: 1-5, 18. I hope you heed wise counsel.