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eve
11-16-2010, 12:36 PM
Went to Redbox and rented "Darfur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fSjQEXzIXI)" on my day off yesterday.

I can't think of anything I truly hate. But after watching that film, I'd put the Janjaweed on my extremely short Hate List.

Wow. I was soooooooooooooooo seething during that film. I can literally go on all day about why. I can't imagine a more wicked group of animals who call humans monkeys yet rape them (bestiality, hello?) and are so cowardly in the way they abuse unarmed people ... oh, don't get me started. I literally wanted to go into the screen and kill every last one of them on the spot. Yes. If I had been in that village when they arrived, no doubt I'd be dead. I'd force my murder and let those primates rape my corpse if they insisted. Oh my goodness, those "men" are sooo worthless. If you don't want to see anger come out of you from nowhere, don't rent that film!

Anyway. then an idea hit me: What does it say about me if I have so much hate for people who have so much hate? In other words, how can I hate people for hating: isn't that hypocritical, having the same emotion as the emotion I despise?

I mean, I know I'm called to love even (and especially) enemies like them: dudes who are so mindless they pillage whole people-groups, make it seem like people don't belong in their own homeland, and blame the natives for defending themselves. So if I'm called to love them, and I know loving them honors God, why is it that I hate them?

These, of course, are answers I am not necessarily asking you to judge me about (unless you want to, lol) ... I think this is a human question if anything. I was just personally surprised by my response even to terrible people, and I was wondering if it can even be valid to have the same emotion as the emotion you despise. And what that says about such a person.

SemperReformanda
11-16-2010, 12:44 PM
I understand. I feel the same way towards those enslaving worldwide, and forcing children to be soldiers in Darfur. This is why I've gotten involved in the Christian human-rights agencies on campus, so I can do my part to live out the gospel in this aspect...




"8He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8 (ESV)

The following is a hip-hop song from a guy, Emmanuel Jal who escaped Darfur. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT-0NG5_fhw

I feel like it's not so much that I "hate" the individuals, but I have a vehement hatred for the sins they are committing, and forcing others to commit. Maybe this is a cliche and basic way of looking at it, but it's how I see it, personally.


"True love is to hate sin." - Steven the Levite

David L
11-16-2010, 01:06 PM
I don't see anything wrong with hating what they do eve. Trying to keep that from escalating to hatred for the individual committing the act is something that's a work of the Spirit. I get caught up this too from time to time.

Just one visit to "thereligionofpeace" website is usually enough for me so I stay away from it. Still, I think it's good to confront this side of us. The goal must be growth and maturing that comes from much prayer and humility. I believe the biblical advice was to "be angry but do not sin". That's usually what rushes to my mind during a time like this..

Deadmanwalking
11-16-2010, 02:11 PM
Went to Redbox and rented "Darfur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fSjQEXzIXI)" on my day off yesterday.

I can't think of anything I truly hate. But after watching that film, I'd put the Janjaweed on my extremely short Hate List.

Wow. I was soooooooooooooooo seething during that film. I can literally go on all day about why. I can't imagine a more wicked group of animals who call humans monkeys yet rape them (bestiality, hello?) and are so cowardly in the way they abuse unarmed people ... oh, don't get me started. I literally wanted to go into the screen and kill every last one of them on the spot. Yes. If I had been in that village when they arrived, no doubt I'd be dead. I'd force my murder and let those primates rape my corpse if they insisted. Oh my goodness, those "men" are sooo worthless. If you don't want to see anger come out of you from nowhere, don't rent that film!

Anyway. then an idea hit me: What does it say about me if I have so much hate for people who have so much hate? In other words, how can I hate people for hating: isn't that hypocritical, having the same emotion as the emotion I despise?

I mean, I know I'm called to love even (and especially) enemies like them: dudes who are so mindless they pillage whole people-groups, make it seem like people don't belong in their own homeland, and blame the natives for defending themselves. So if I'm called to love them, and I know loving them honors God, why is it that I hate them?

These, of course, are answers I am not necessarily asking you to judge me about (unless you want to, lol) ... I think this is a human question if anything. I was just personally surprised by my response even to terrible people, and I was wondering if it can even be valid to have the same emotion as the emotion you despise. And what that says about such a person.



Does God hate sin? Does GOD love everyone?

Personally, I would have no problem hating them for their injustice. If I love peace and justice, then the opposite would be to hate injustice. I know that GOD says to love your enemies, and for that to occur the Holy Spirit would have to grant me supernatural grace to do so. Until then, I would hate those people as I believe GOD hates them.

CHEMAelMC
11-16-2010, 02:43 PM
Went to Redbox and rented "Darfur (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fSjQEXzIXI)" on my day off yesterday.

I can't think of anything I truly hate. But after watching that film, I'd put the Janjaweed on my extremely short Hate List.

Wow. I was soooooooooooooooo seething during that film. I can literally go on all day about why. I can't imagine a more wicked group of animals who call humans monkeys yet rape them (bestiality, hello?) and are so cowardly in the way they abuse unarmed people ... oh, don't get me started. I literally wanted to go into the screen and kill every last one of them on the spot. Yes. If I had been in that village when they arrived, no doubt I'd be dead. I'd force my murder and let those primates rape my corpse if they insisted. Oh my goodness, those "men" are sooo worthless. If you don't want to see anger come out of you from nowhere, don't rent that film!

Anyway. then an idea hit me: What does it say about me if I have so much hate for people who have so much hate? In other words, how can I hate people for hating: isn't that hypocritical, having the same emotion as the emotion I despise?

I mean, I know I'm called to love even (and especially) enemies like them: dudes who are so mindless they pillage whole people-groups, make it seem like people don't belong in their own homeland, and blame the natives for defending themselves. So if I'm called to love them, and I know loving them honors God, why is it that I hate them?

These, of course, are answers I am not necessarily asking you to judge me about (unless you want to, lol) ... I think this is a human question if anything. I was just personally surprised by my response even to terrible people, and I was wondering if it can even be valid to have the same emotion as the emotion you despise. And what that says about such a person.

I can understand the feeling... matter of fact, like 2 days ago I read on the newspaper about 3 TEENAGERS who hit A 5 YEAR OLD BOY in the head with stones... I was lika WHAAAAAAAAAAT???... I really do not know what I had done to those FOOLS if my 5 year old boy had been the victim... yet, the parents of the kid just called the cops... I probably would've hit them with stones. I cannot say.

David L
11-16-2010, 03:23 PM
Does God hate sin? Does GOD love everyone?

Personally, I would have no problem hating them for their injustice. If I love peace and justice, then the opposite would be to hate injustice. I know that GOD says to love your enemies, and for that to occur the Holy Spirit would have to grant me supernatural grace to do so. Until then, I would hate those people as I believe GOD hates them.

God does, show me a single passage where believers are instructed to hate anybody that hasn't been reconciled by Jesus. I know all about Reformed folk and the Psalms and God hating sinners. Just show me the passage..

Aquila
11-16-2010, 03:33 PM
The cowards are right here in America within our government. We have concerns about every other country but we do nothing as Africa destroys itself with corrupt crazy leaders and military.

Blessed are the Christians who are over there risking their lives to spread the Gospel and feed people.

Deadmanwalking
11-16-2010, 04:07 PM
God does, show me a single passage where believers are instructed to hate anybody that hasn't been reconciled by Jesus. I know all about Reformed folk and the Psalms and God hating sinners. Just show me the passage..

I didn't say there was a passage that commands us to hate people. But biblical principle has taught me to hate what GOD hates. I hate their deeds. If I had to minister to them I wouldn't hold back and say "No, GOD hates you and so do I." I would love them as Christ loved me. Horrible wretches that are in desperate need of a Savior. But as a group of people, I judge based on their actions. And so while I might say I hate them, what I'm really saying is that I hate what they do and what they represent.

We on the same page?

David L
11-16-2010, 04:14 PM
We on the same page?

I hate you.

:tongue:

eve
11-16-2010, 04:43 PM
you guys have provided some important things to think about.

do i hate the Janjaweed or their sins? i'd have to say the Janjaweed. mind you, those dudes in the film were actors, but we know what the Janjaweed does (or did) to people. And if I were armed when they arrived, I would have protected those village people until they killed me dead. lol. my emotions weren't going entirely to the sins but the people committing them. so that's the hard part. i guess i'll have to mature to make such a distinction in the face of such senseless horror. speaking of senselessness, part of my problem is that the logic of the Janjaweed is sooooooooooooooooooooooo terrible. when the leader said he wanted to rid the world of "black monkeys," then he had his men rape the "monkeys," then he said he was enacting revenge on them because the last time this happened the village people killed a few Jannaweed to protect themselves (which of course is the fault of the perpetrators who didn't belong in the village to begin with) ... i mean, this was almost unbearable.

yet i still know that ministering the gospel to the Janjaweed dudes instead of insulting them or castrating them would have honored God more. but looking into the leader's eyes and thinking "this Janjaweed guy needs the gospel" was NOT going through my mind.

and of course me and anyone else who would get mad at such a film should use that anger to go down there and serve. thanks for those admonitions as well, fam.

Deadmanwalking
11-16-2010, 04:54 PM
I hate you.

:tongue:

:D I love you too bro.

David L
11-16-2010, 04:58 PM
have you seen or heard of the tale from "End of the Spear"??

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399862/

It's a tale of Christian missionaries who had a strong desire to preach the gospel to a particular Waodini tribe in Central America. The dudes were speared to death by the tribe. Then, the wives or widows of the husbands returned to the tribe with their children did the same thing their husbands did and the whole tribe came to Christ.

I imagine if anyone had a right to hate those men for how they treated their husbands it was those women and the children. They set the bar for how we should handle sinners in a fallen world. It's a great film if you haven't seen it and I got to see the head of tribe in person with the son of the missionary he killed at missionary conference many years ago. I guess its that testimony that helps me reconcile these type of events when I encounter them though the inner me screams vengeance Paul tells us to not repay evil for evil but to leave room for the wrath of God because vengeance alone belongs to Him.

Deadmanwalking
11-16-2010, 05:29 PM
After reading that story David L (do you mind if I call you Dave? I have a habit of shortening names),

I don't believe that loving your enemies is something that can be willed by man (not anyone implied that). I truly believe that it is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that conditions the heart. I believe loving your enemies is a miracle of GOD. It shouldn't be taken lightly and the glory shouldn't be attributed to any human as if they're special people who did it on their own strength.. For real. All glory to GOD.