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eve
02-13-2007, 04:18 PM
please listen to this (http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=39&Itemid=85).

it's a sermon about the Cross of Christ by Paul Washer. it's called "The Meaning of the Cross."

as usual, Paul brings it in a way rarely heard in our current pop-theology-riddled American Churchianity.

(if it's already been mentioned on this board, view this as a reminder!)

enjoy!

:D

The_Expositor
02-13-2007, 05:46 PM
This is an awesome message. Have you heard the one on "Holiness"?

CLER
02-13-2007, 05:57 PM
I haven't gotten to that... it takes me a while to take in everything he says, it's just so meaty! But P. Washer does bring it!

eve
02-13-2007, 08:11 PM
This is an awesome message. Have you heard the one on "Holiness"?

when i get up from recovering from this one, i may have enough left in me to check that one out!

eve
02-13-2007, 10:37 PM
i just wanted to add another two cents about this one.

paul washer is sooooo talented in being biblical about his theology (even when God is put in a light that is not politically correct by today's standards), and being descriptive about truths of God.

it had me stop in my tracks, for example, when he said that if we really knew the full grace of God on our lives, our physical bodies wouldn't be able to contain the joy we'd experience.

amazing.

if you haven't heard this yet, check it out.

i would bet that few of us have ever heard a sermon about Christ's cross that compares to this.

Shock~Therapy
02-14-2007, 01:16 AM
please listen to this (http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=39&Itemid=85).

it's a sermon about the Cross of Christ by Paul Washer. it's called "The Meaning of the Cross."

as usual, Paul brings it in a way rarely heard in our current pop-theology-riddled American Churchianity.

(if it's already been mentioned on this board, view this as a reminder!)

enjoy!

:D

interesting... I agree with what he is saying and that we should be very careful in how we word things, paying attention to detail to make sure that it is theologically correct. But do we sometimes get a bit overboard with it? I mean sometimes we harp on a particular preacher because they did not spill out every last detail of the law and gospel, even though the details were being implied in what they said.

tlr
02-14-2007, 07:31 AM
please listen to this (http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=39&Itemid=85).

it's a sermon about the Cross of Christ by Paul Washer. it's called "The Meaning of the Cross."

as usual, Paul brings it in a way rarely heard in our current pop-theology-riddled American Churchianity.

(if it's already been mentioned on this board, view this as a reminder!)

enjoy!

:D

Thanks for message although there were some points that i did not necessarily agree with but we are here to learn and be encouraged by each other.

peace

Jason718
02-14-2007, 09:15 AM
excellent message. Excellent excellent message.

i'm really glad that Jesus mediated the whole gun situation between me and God. :D

eve
02-14-2007, 12:36 PM
you know, another thing that struck me was that there is so much christians tend to say that any unbeliever with a fifth of a brain realizes doesn't make any sense. but we believe what we're taught "by faith," having not looked into the contextual Word that was being "taught." and we end up tripping up unbelievers who we have an obligation to spill the Truth to.

for example, the idea that "God saved me from my sin." as washer so EXCELLENTLY said, we're not saved from our sin. we're saved from the wrath of God, who, because of His holiness, has to punish sin! (i can imagine an unbeliever hearing us say the former and having a cartoon character image of a green thingie with a tee shirt that says "sin" chasing us around the world ... and God scooping us. doesn't make sense!)

another example washer used ... we often say Jesus asked that the cup be passed from Him (prior to Him saying "let thy will be done") as if it was the pain of crucifixion that Jesus didn't want to experience. "Jesus was a man, too," many preachers say. "He didn't want to go through that excruciating pain." but the fact is that the pain (though amazingly great) wasn't what Jesus was talking about! imagine being in the bosom of perfect fellowship for trillions and trillions of years to infinity ... only to be yanked from it for a time. now, that's pain.

ok, one more! i also loved the way washer got into how God supposedly looked away from His Son on the cross because He couldn't bear to see Jesus suffering like that. yup, some people preach that stuff. but washer took us to isaiah 53, where it says that it PLEASED God the Father to CRUSH Him. scripture doesn't say what scripture doesn't mean. it actually pleased the Father to grind the Son to powder for the sake of the souls of His people. that part left me nearly breathless.

go 'head, paul washer.

:eek:

thankfull
02-14-2007, 12:40 PM
ok, one more! i also loved the way washer got into how God supposedly looked away from His Son on the cross because He couldn't bear to see Jesus suffering like that. yup, some people preach that stuff. but washer took us to isaiah 53, where it says that it PLEASED God the Father to CRUSH Him. scripture doesn't say what scripture doesn't mean. it actually pleased the Father to grind the Son to powder for the sake of the souls of His people. that part left me nearly breathless.

go 'head, paul washer.

:eek:


I haven't listened yet, but that wow at the explanation...

Shock~Therapy
02-14-2007, 01:11 PM
I DO like the explanation that Paul Washer gave of why Jesus wept in the garden of Gethsemane. I had long believed that it was not the actual physical crucifixion and torment that concerned Jesus but rather His seperation from the Father. That was the true suffering of the cross. And thanks be to Jesus Christ that despite whatever social or even physical torment we might have to endure for our faith, that due to Christ's suffering and death on the cross and resurrection, that we will not have to endure the torment of being seperated from God.

Tony Stone
02-14-2007, 01:26 PM
Thanks for sharing!

On the subject of "saving us from sin", I have my bones to pick with some preachers (actually one in particular who had this discussion with me) who say that Jesus didn't save us from sin. He did! In the words of one preacher that I had diologue with, "Jesus didn't save us from sin because we still sin". Absolutely a horrible summation to "Jesus didn't save us from sin".

Certainly Christ saved us from the wrath to come. But did He not also save us from sin?

Romans 6:6 says:

knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin

Through the death of Christ, we were saved from the slave master of SIN which every man was in bondage to. If Christ did not save us from sin, we would be it's slave still. But Romans attests that our dying to old self, our being crucified with Christ is so that the body of sin might be done away with that we would be slaves of Christ, not of sin, which will be punished.

Furthermore, the Scriptures attest that in the world, we were in bondage to sin. Did not Christ save us from that sin?

Galatians 4:3

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world

If we were not saved from the elements of the world, then we are still under it's rule. It is then a slap at the full redemptive work of Christ to say that we are not saved from sin.

Also, contrary to a socialist gospel, Luke 4:18 testifies of Christ's comming to deliver us from the oppression of sin and to set us free and give us liberty (the new creature desiring to serve God- of which NO unregenerate man yet in his sins can lay claims to)- He indeed saved us from sin:

The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor;He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind,To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

And finally, the Christian rejoices that we have been indeed saved from sin- delivered from sin- cut loose from sin- indeed redeemed form it and from the wrath that is to come upon it

Romans 6:22

But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

So it is just as Biblically accurate to say "I am saved from sin" as to say "I am saved from the wrath to come". Neither are at odds ends with each other in the context of salvation.

DJ Wade-O
02-14-2007, 01:30 PM
Thanks for sharing!

On the subject of "saving us from sin", I have my bones to pick with some preachers (actually one in particular who had this discussion with me) who say that Jesus didn't save us from sin. He did! In the words of one preacher that I had diologue with, "Jesus didn't save us from sin because we still sin". Absolutely a horrible summation to "Jesus didn't save us from sin".

Certainly Christ saved us from the wrath to come. But did He not also save us from sin?

Romans 6:6 says:

knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin

Through the death of Christ, we were saved from the slave master of SIN which every man was in bondage to. If Christ did not save us from sin, we would be it's slave still. But Romans attests that our dying to old self, our being crucified with Christ is so that the body of sin might be done away with that we would be slaves of Christ, not of sin, which will be punished.

Furthermore, the Scriptures attest that in the world, we were in bondage to sin. Did not Christ save us from that sin?

Galatians 4:3

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world

Contrary to a socialist gospel, Luke 4:18 testifies of Christ's comming to deliver us from the oppression of sin and to set us from liberty- He indeed saved us from sin:

The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor;He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind,To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

And finally, the Christian rejoices that we have been indeed saved from sin- delivered from sin- cut loose from sin- indeed redeemed form it and from the wrath that is to come upon it

Romans 6:22

But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

So it is just as Biblically accurate to say "I am saved from sin" as to say "I am saved from the wrath to come". Neither are at odds ends with each other in the context of salvation.

Its wild what some people will argue man. I think sometimes people get caught up in being the one who started thinking differentlyt first or trying to be deep.

To be a Christian and argue that Christ did not save us from sin is just ridculous man. Thats disgusting.

tlr
02-14-2007, 01:38 PM
Thanks for sharing!

On the subject of "saving us from sin", I have my bones to pick with some preachers (actually one in particular who had this discussion with me) who say that Jesus didn't save us from sin. He did! In the words of one preacher that I had diologue with, "Jesus didn't save us from sin because we still sin". Absolutely a horrible summation to "Jesus didn't save us from sin".

Certainly Christ saved us from the wrath to come. But did He not also save us from sin?

Romans 6:6 says:

knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin

Through the death of Christ, we were saved from the slave master of SIN which every man was in bondage to. If Christ did not save us from sin, we would be it's slave still. But Romans attests that our dying to old self, our being crucified with Christ is so that the body of sin might be done away with that we would be slaves of Christ, not of sin, which will be punished.

Furthermore, the Scriptures attest that in the world, we were in bondage to sin. Did not Christ save us from that sin?

Galatians 4:3

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world

If we were not saved from the elements of the world, then we are still under it's rule. It is then a slap at the full redemptive work of Christ to say that we are not saved from sin.

Also, contrary to a socialist gospel, Luke 4:18 testifies of Christ's comming to deliver us from the oppression of sin and to set us free and give us liberty (the new creature desiring to serve God- of which NO unregenerate man yet in his sins can lay claims to)- He indeed saved us from sin:

The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me,Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor;He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind,To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

And finally, the Christian rejoices that we have been indeed saved from sin- delivered from sin- cut loose from sin- indeed redeemed form it and from the wrath that is to come upon it

Romans 6:22

But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

So it is just as Biblically accurate to say "I am saved from sin" as to say "I am saved from the wrath to come". Neither are at odds ends with each other in the context of salvation.

sorry tony i did not quite get what you you were saying

eve
02-14-2007, 02:00 PM
for those who take issue with the "saved from sin" comment, please listen to the sermon for proper context of what was preached.

please write your reaction to that when you listen to the sermon.

(i say that because i don't want to misrepresent what was preached, and i certainly can't say it the way paul washer did. i think it's better that folks respond to what actually was said if they didn't get a chance to listen to it ...)

if you did listen, please use this as an avenue to discuss points he made that you agree and disagree on based on scripture, as tony did.

thanks!

Tony Stone
02-14-2007, 02:07 PM
for those who take issue with the "saved from sin" comment, please listen to the sermon for proper context of what was preached.

please write your reaction to that when you listen to the sermon.

(i say that because i don't want to misrepresent what was preached, and i certainly can't say it the way paul washer did. i think it's better that folks respond to what actually was said if they didn't get a chance to listen to it ...)

if you did listen, please use this as an avenue to discuss points he made that you agree and disagree on based on scripture, as tony did.

thanks!

No doubt!

And just as a sidebar for everyone here, I really like the majority of Paul Washer sermons that I've heard and have found them useful! He has a very colorful way of painting things that has a way of making you look at the truths of Scripture in a more indepth way.

I especially appreciated the point he made on Christ and Him not cowering in fear for natural death preceeding the crucifixion. I think that's a great point that's often overlooked by many.

TLR, my post was in response to "saved from sin". As I mentioned in my first post, I've also had dialogue with a local preacher about the subject and thought it would be noteworthy to bring to the table my stance on it as well as the Scriptural support for why I hold fast to being "saved from sin" is as Bibically accurate as the understanding of the comming wrath on all sinners who are not justified by grace through faith.

tlr
02-19-2007, 08:35 AM
No doubt!

And just as a sidebar for everyone here, I really like the majority of Paul Washer sermons that I've heard and have found them useful! He has a very colorful way of painting things that has a way of making you look at the truths of Scripture in a more indepth way.

I especially appreciated the point he made on Christ and Him not cowering in fear for natural death preceeding the crucifixion. I think that's a great point that's often overlooked by many.

TLR, my post was in response to "saved from sin". As I mentioned in my first post, I've also had dialogue with a local preacher about the subject and thought it would be noteworthy to bring to the table my stance on it as well as the Scriptural support for why I hold fast to being "saved from sin" is as Bibically accurate as the understanding of the comming wrath on all sinners who are not justified by grace through faith.

My response to that would be yes and no. We are saved from sin spiritually but not physically. These are challenging posts which really have to make you think and examine what you really believe. Good

peace