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Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 03:10 PM
we are talkin kidd now and nash now

nash>kidd


Exactly and NOW Nash is the better player. He has been MVP for two straight season folks so I know im not trippin. Did Kidd even recieve any votes?

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 03:15 PM
Hmmm not according to the stats or the MVP voting or his ability to lead a team to the conference finals. The old Kidd was better than Nash there is no argument there but if I was starting a team and I had to pick between the two give me Nash.

Here's the thing about Kidd, stats aren't a clear picture of how he impacts the game. He's one of the few players in the league that can score 2 pts but still control the whole tone of the game. Kidd gives you defense, boards, and dimes. Even if he's lost a step he's still in the top three. Oh and Nash is one year younger (Kidd 33 -- Nash 32).

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 03:18 PM
Exactly and NOW Nash is the better player. He has been MVP for two straight season folks so I know im not trippin. Did Kidd even recieve any votes?

It was puzzling to me how Nash could win the MVP, but Lebron could end up with more All NBA 1st team votes them him. I don't believe that's ever happened before.

Anywho...yes I'm referring to Nash & Kidd NOW. To tell the truth, Billups gets my vote as the best PG in the league NOW.

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 03:20 PM
Here's the thing about Kidd, stats aren't a clear picture of how he impacts the game. He's one of the few players in the league that can score 2 pts but still control the whole tone of the game. Kidd gives you defense, boards, and dimes. Even if he's lost a step he's still in the top three. Oh and Nash is one year younger (Kidd 33 -- Nash 32).


True Nash is one year younger but he hasnt "lost a step" he is only getting better with evidence of him winning the last two mvps. However I will agree that Kidd is a better defensive player I will give him that and only that. I still think we shouldnt ingore the stats so lets examine them shall we....

Last year Kidd averaged 13ppg 8.4as and shot 40% from the field.

Nash averaged 19ppg 10.5as and shot 51% from the field. He also led his team to the conference finals without Amare.

dogfight!
10-31-2006, 03:21 PM
I'd so pick Paul before Kidd now. Shoo, I'll pick AI before him. Even Skip before Kidd. Control the game my foot. He had the players around him that he needed and still couldnt do squat. His best days are behind him. He used to be a triple double waiting to happen now the only way he's getting triples is if you include turnovers or missed shots.

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 03:22 PM
Anywho...yes I'm referring to Nash & Kidd NOW. To tell the truth, Billups gets my vote as the best PG in the league NOW.


Hmmm I gotta think about that one I am impressed with Billups as well and he has proven that he is a leader. I might have to agree with you on that one but I dont know.

Conviction Music
10-31-2006, 03:22 PM
It was puzzling to me how Nash could win the MVP, but Lebron could end up with more All NBA 1st team votes them him. I don't believe that's ever happened before.

Anywho...yes I'm referring to Nash & Kidd NOW. To tell the truth, Billups gets my vote as the best PG in the league NOW.


Chauncey didnt get it done last year, sorry and im a detroit and laker fan. I HATE THE SUNS. Nash is the best as of right now. Couple months into the season and we will see.

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 03:38 PM
True Nash is one year younger but he hasnt "lost a step" he is only getting better with evidence of him winning the last two mvps. However I will agree that Kidd is a better defensive player I will give him that and only that. I still think we shouldnt ingore the stats so lets examine them shall we....

Last year Kidd averaged 13ppg 8.4as and shot 40% from the field.

Nash averaged 19ppg 10.5as and shot 51% from the field. He also led his team to the conference finals without Amare.

Nash has never been known for his blinding speed. He's deceptive and with his outside shot you've got to play him honest.
So your position is Kidd only plays better defense than Nash. So in addition to having a better outside shot than Kidd, he's a better all around scorer & rebounder...he has better vision than Kidd, better handles than Kidd, etc?

All this because Jason Kidd has lost a step? I disagree.

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 03:40 PM
Chauncey didnt get it done last year, sorry and im a detroit and laker fan. I HATE THE SUNS. Nash is the best as of right now. Couple months into the season and we will see.

No he didn't get it done if you mean he didn't lead his team to a NBA title.
If that's the measure you're referring to, then Nash didn't get it done either.

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 03:44 PM
Nash has never been known for his blinding speed. He's deceptive and with his outside shot you've got to play him honest.
So your position is Kidd only plays better defense than Nash. So in addition to having a better outside shot than Kidd, he's a better all around scorer & rebounder...he has better vision than Kidd, better handles than Kidd, etc?

All this because Jason Kidd has lost a step? I disagree.

Kidd is a better rebounder (even though I thought we were referring to things that were distinct for a point gaurd) being a better rebounder is not what makes somebody a better point gaurd. Those other items (besides scoring cause Nash is clearly the better scorer NOW) is to close to call in my opinion cause they both do those things well. Let me ask a hypothetical (spell check )question......if we placed Kidd on last years Suns team do you believe they would have made it to the conference finals?

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 03:55 PM
I just thought it over I wouldnt put Billups over Nash....Billups has a strong supporting cast which makes him look good.....what did he do before he joined the Pistons?.....Anybody.......?

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 04:09 PM
Kidd is a better rebounder (even though I thought we were referring to things that were distinct for a point gaurd) being a better rebounder is not what makes somebody a better point gaurd. Those other items (besides scoring cause Nash is clearly the better scorer NOW) is to close to call in my opinion cause they both do those things well. Let me ask a hypothetical (spell check )question......if we placed Kidd on last years Suns team do you believe they would have made it to the conference finals?

If a point guard is judge by wins and losses, anything thing they bring to the table that will effect the outcome of the game most be brought under consideration. Rebounds on the defensive end stops positions for the opposing teams and opens up easy baskets for your team.

Nash is a better shooter.

Yes the Suns would have made to the conference finals with Jason Kidd.

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 04:16 PM
If a point guard is judge by wins and losses, anything thing they bring to the table that will effect the outcome of the game most be brought under consideration. Rebounds on the defensive end stops positions for the opposing teams and opens up easy baskets for your team.

Nash is a better shooter.

Yes the Suns would have made to the conference finals with Jason Kidd.


So kidd could lead a team to the conference finals in the West but yet in the East he is only able to lead his team to one win in round 2 of the playoffs? Interesting logic........go ahead and say it "but they played Miami".

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 04:20 PM
I just thought it over I wouldnt put Billups over Nash....Billups has a strong supporting cast which makes him look good.....what did he do before he joined the Pistons?.....Anybody.......?

He didn't get a real opportunity until he joined the Pistons. He average like 13 pts and 4 ast as a rookie in Boston and he got shipped out of town to Toronto then shipped to Orlando (while he was injured in both places so he didn't really play). Orlando shipped him to Denver (while he was injured) and he played along side of and sometimes backed up Nick Van Exel.

Then his break came when he went to Minnesota. He got an opportunity to run the Wolves while Terrell Brandon was saddled with a career ending knee injury.

When His contract ran out, he signed with Detroit and was told it was his team to run.

Nash got drafted by Phoenix who had Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd. KJ retired and Kidd won the starting position. Nash went to Dallas and perfected his craft. Under Kidd the Suns were always in the playoffs, but they were always plagued with injuries. Under Nash the Mavs were mainstays in the playoffs with clearly superior players. Kidd was shipped out of Phoenix for PR reasons (beating his wife didn't go over well with the front office) and landed in New Jersey where he guaranteed they would make the playoffs. Nets became a powerhouse team with 2 finals appearances. The team went south when the owner decided to start shipping out players. The ship/team leveled off when they acquired Vinsaity, but the window of opportunity is closed.

Nash left the Mavs after his contract ran out and signed with the Suns. The Suns have one of the best offensive systems (if not the best), an excellent coach, and some solid and spectacular players.

Nash, Kidd, Billups (no particular order) all ended up in good situations and have proven themselves to be the top 3 PGs in the L.

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 04:22 PM
So kidd could lead a team to the conference finals in the West but yet in the East he is only able to lead his team to one win in round 2 of the playoffs? Interesting logic........go ahead and say it "but they played Miami".

Flip the script: Could Nash have led the Nets to the conference finals?

The Suns were a better team. Kidd on a better team yields better results.

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 04:26 PM
Flip the script: Could Nash have led the Nets to the conference finals?

The Suns were a better team. Kidd on a better team yields better results.


The suns were a better team cause Nash made the players around him better. On paper who has the most star talent? I would argue the Nets. Nash lead his team to the conference finals with Marion and a bunch of role players.......you give him Vince Carter and Jefferson then yes he will reach the conference finals.

Redeemed
10-31-2006, 04:37 PM
The suns were a better team cause Nash made the players around him better. On paper who has the most star talent? I would argue the Nets. Nash lead his team to the conference finals with Marion and a bunch of role players.......you give him Vince Carter and Jefferson then yes he will reach the conference finals.

Nash on the Nets would not have beat Miami.
Nash had a better team top to bottom check the rosters. Jefferson & Marion are an even comparison.

Conviction Music
10-31-2006, 04:46 PM
Nash on the Nets would not have beat Miami.
Nash had a better team top to bottom check the rosters. Jefferson & Marion are an even comparison.

Vince and Barbosa?

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 04:48 PM
Nash on the Nets would not have beat Miami.
Nash had a better team top to bottom check the rosters. Jefferson & Marion are an even comparison.


Well I would argue that Kidd on the Suns could not have beat the Lakers or the Clippers. I agree Jefferson and Marion are even but what about the Nets best player Vince Carter? Did the suns have a non injured player up to par with him? Also what Suns big man is as talented as Krstic?

Quiet storm
10-31-2006, 04:50 PM
Vince and Barbosa?

lol my point exactly. Kidd has more to work with

eternal
10-31-2006, 04:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking

haha! Go Warriors!

joseph29
10-31-2006, 05:03 PM
Kidd is definitely not the best pg right now. But one of the things that makes me upset that nash won the mvp twice is that j kidd did the same thing in. Dude took the nets, one of the worst teams in the east, to the nba finals. He helped make a 2nd year kenyon martin look like a top 10 player and definitely made his teamates a whole lot better. I know he had stiff comp with t duncan, but i thought he was the true definition of an mvp.

when nash came to the suns he had a lot more talent to work with than j kidd had in jersey. dude had solid starting lineup, plus a deep bench with a good backup PG. (something kidd hasen't really had in years)

CHRISTion
10-31-2006, 08:31 PM
QS, I will give you this...obviously Nash is better than Kidd right now, but to say it's all about stats is BS (not saying you said that exactly, but it's what was being said)

NOW, for someone that's NEVER played the PG position-I could see how a person can just compare stats, but the pg position is similar to the QB position, it's really the hardest position to play and stats don't tell the whole story (which is why some will argue that Manning is the best QB based on stats, but others will say it's Brady based on things that can't be measured by stats)

JKidd's impact is more than just points assists and rebs...and it's the same with Steve Nash-what makes BOTH GREAT is that they make THOSE AROUND THEM BETTER-whether they have the ball or not. Jason Kidd's impact at the pg position means that they have someone that plays BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL REALLY well (and if you don't believe me, why don't we compare how many times Kidd has been on the all defensive team compared to Steve Nash-yeeeeaah, didn't think so) and that can run an offense SMOOTH and effectively-maybe he's not the player that he used to be (we can ALL agree on that) but to assume that he's not still a top 10 (if not top 5) pg in the league right now is ridiculous.

Game recognize game...watch the games, not just stat columns.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 12:19 AM
QS, I will give you this...obviously Nash is better than Kidd right now, but to say it's all about stats is BS (not saying you said that exactly, but it's what was being said)


Ummm I only brought up the stats cause cats were ignoring it but I never said it was ALL about the stats. I brought up other points such as him being named the MVP for the pass 2 years and also the fact that since he joined the Suns they have been a winning team and last year made it to the conference finals without one of their top 2 players. If we are discussing point gaurds dont you think its essential to see if they can distribute the ball? If so then how many assist they average is important agreed?



NOW, for someone that's NEVER played the PG position-I could see how a person can just compare stats, but the pg position is similar to the QB position, it's really the hardest position to play and stats don't tell the whole story (which is why some will argue that Manning is the best QB based on stats, but others will say it's Brady based on things that can't be measured by stats)

I disagree I think when looking at point gaurds we can learn a great deal by checking out their stats. If a point gaurd is averaging 3 assist per game and averaging 4 turnovers a game you mean to tell me that doesnt tell us anything? The things that "cant be measured" is relative(meaning its open to ones opinion) but stats are not.



JKidd's impact is more than just points assists and rebs...and it's the same with Steve Nash-what makes BOTH GREAT is that they make THOSE AROUND THEM BETTER-whether they have the ball or not. Jason Kidd's impact at the pg position means that they have someone that plays BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL REALLY well (and if you don't believe me, why don't we compare how many times Kidd has been on the all defensive team compared to Steve Nash-yeeeeaah, didn't think so)

This is a mute point Chris cause once again we are talking about NOW we are not talking about the past. Its funny how yall cats only try to point to Kidd's glory days how about we focus on 04-06......k?



and that can run an offense SMOOTH and effectively-maybe he's not the player that he used to be (we can ALL agree on that) but to assume that he's not still a top 10 (if not top 5) pg in the league right now is ridiculous.


Who is assuming that he is still in my top 10.


Game recognize game...watch the games, not just stat columns.

I watched the games and I saw Nash leading his team to the conference finals while Kidd had gone fishing.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 10:53 AM
Interesting the Lakers beat the Suns without Kobe. hmmmmmmm:D

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Interesting the Lakers beat the Suns without Kobe. hmmmmmmm:D

IMAGINE when they get KOBE back, Lamar 34 points, Kobe 45 Points,

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Interesting how your 2 time MVP couldn't do anything about it :rolleyes:

BTW-would you agree that the MVP voting the last 2 yrs was a little tainted-meaning that it probably shouldn't have went to him? I mean...if you look at the stats (since you wanna go there) of your golden boy Steve Nash, compared to other pg's in the past, there's nothing special about what he did--check the stats of Isaih Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, John Stockton, Kevin Johnson etc and you will see that they put up better stats, oh and before u open your mouth and say "well they never led their team to the finals" We all know that Isaih has 2 rings (compared to Nash not even getting to the finals), Stockton went to the finals TWICE, KJ once, and the rest led their team deep into the playoffs, just like Nash did.

Obviously, we can't take the MVP trophies away from him and yes he did make the Suns a better team (though they were a playoff team without him) let's not just act like this fool is like the greatest player in the league, because he's not.

Oh and 1 more thing-since we are not talking about the Kidd of the past-did he still make the all defensive team last year?? Just checking.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 11:24 AM
MOVING ON FROM KIDD & Nash...

This NBA season is gonna be a good one to watch. It's gonna be fun watching #24, #23, and #3 (D Wade) battle for the crown this year. And WHO has League pass??? http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/Jesusfann/Cool.jpg

dogfight!
11-01-2006, 11:25 AM
Interesting how your 2 time MVP couldn't do anything about it :rolleyes:

BTW-would you agree that the MVP voting the last 2 yrs was a little tainted-meaning that it probably shouldn't have went to him? I mean...if you look at the stats (since you wanna go there) of your golden boy Steve Nash, compared to other pg's in the past, there's nothing special about what he did--check the stats of Isaih Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, John Stockton, Kevin Johnson etc and you will see that they put up better stats, oh and before u open your mouth and say "well they never led their team to the finals" We all know that Isaih has 2 rings (compared to Nash not even getting to the finals), Stockton went to the finals TWICE, KJ once, and the rest led their team deep into the playoffs, just like Nash did.

Obviously, we can't take the MVP trophies away from him and yes he did make the Suns a better team (though they were a playoff team without him) let's not just act like this fool is like the greatest player in the league, because he's not.

Oh and 1 more thing-since we are not talking about the Kidd of the past-did he still make the all defensive team last year?? Just checking.

We all know the L was hating on Kobe which is why he didnt win in last year. But people define MVP as the difference he makes to the team not necessarily his points. The point can be made that the suns went from nobodies to contenders and the major difference on the team was the acquisition of Nash.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:25 AM
IMAGINE when they get KOBE back, Lamar 34 points, Kobe 45 Points,


Dont you mean Kobe 45 points Lamar 10 points. When Kobe comes back believe me Lamar wont get 24 shot attempts he will be lucky to get 12. Did yall see Bynum though the young kid looked kind of nice.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:32 AM
let's not just act like this fool is like the greatest player in the league, because he's not.



Chris show me one person in this thread who is arguing that Nash is the greatest player? The argument was between Kidd and Nash to see who was the better player NOW so I really dont know what you are trying to argue since you agree with me. lol


QS, I will give you this...obviously Nash is better than Kidd right now


Case Closed............. now how about you figure out why the Lakers look better as a team without the person you feel is the greatest in the game. When Kobe comes back there goes the team chemistry :(.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:34 AM
Chris show me one person in this thread who is arguing that Nash is the greatest player? The argument was between Kidd and Nash to see who was the better player NOW so I really dont know what you are trying to argue since you agree with me. lol




Case Closed............. now how about you figure out why the Lakers look better as a team without the person you feel is the greatest in the game. When Kobe comes back there goes the team chemistry :(.

Not true, Kobe will play Phil's system and the Lakers are the team to beat this year.

dogfight!
11-01-2006, 11:34 AM
Chris show me one person in this thread who is arguing that Nash is the greatest player? The argument was between Kidd and Nash to see who was the better player NOW so I really dont know what you are trying to argue since you agree with me. lol




Case Closed............. now how about you figure out why the Lakers look better as a team without the person you feel is the greatest in the game. When Kobe comes back there goes the team chemistry :(.
How come your beloved DWade couldnt will his team to score more than 70 points not to talk of winning. Only dude in double figures; even Kobe aint that bad.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:35 AM
The point can be made that the suns went from nobodies to contenders and the major difference on the team was the acquisition of Nash.


Exactly and this is why Nash has won the MVP. As soon as Shaq left under the leadership of Mr. Bryant the Lakers went from contenders to nobodies. See the difference Mr. Martin? :)

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:36 AM
How come your beloved DWade couldnt will his team to score more than 70 points not to talk of winning. Only dude in double figures; even Kobe aint that bad.


The team had a bad game......your point? Holla at me when the Rockets get back in the playoffs. :rolleyes:

dogfight!
11-01-2006, 11:39 AM
The team had a bad game......your point? Holla at me when the Rockets get back in the playoffs. :rolleyes:
How about I holla at you Nov 22. Rockets vs Wiz. :D

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:40 AM
Dont you mean Kobe 45 points Lamar 10 points. When Kobe comes back believe me Lamar wont get 24 shot attempts he will be lucky to get 12. Did yall see Bynum though the young kid looked kind of nice.

Whatever, the Frontline of the Lakers will be solid with Bynum, Kwame, Odom, will be real solid. And mid season Jordan Farmar is going to be a BEAST! i watched him last year at Ucla and he was killin em

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:41 AM
Not true, Kobe will play Phil's system and the Lakers are the team to beat this year.


Kobe only plays Kobe's system.....the person calling the game last night made an interesting point. He pretty much said that when Kobe comes back Lamar has to keep up his agressive play and not just settle for letting Kobe do his thing. If you watch Kobe play a lot of times he begs for the ball but cats gotta stop always giving in to his demands and play their game. Lamar can easily average 20 ppg and I think the Lakers would be a better team if he did.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:42 AM
Whatever, the Frontline of the Lakers will be solid with Bynum, Kwame, Odom, will be real solid. And mid season Jordan Farmar is going to be a BEAST! i watched him last year at Ucla and he was killin em


I agree fam they have a solid frontline now I hope Kobe learns to use them.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:43 AM
How about I holla at you Nov 22. Rockets vs Wiz. :D


I will look forward to that game cause hopefully since its early in the season Tracy or Yao wont be on the injured list yet. :rolleyes:

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:45 AM
Kobe only plays Kobe's system.....the person calling the game last night made an interesting point. He pretty much said that when Kobe comes back Lamar has to keep up his agressive play and not just settle for letting Kobe do his thing. If you watch Kobe play a lot of times he begs for the ball but cats gotta stop always giving in to his demands and play their game. Lamar can easily average 20 ppg and I think the Lakers would be a better team if he did.

This year its going to happen correctly. Remember the playoffs? Kobe is upset Shaq got a ring before him so he will prove that he can lead his team as well. Kobe=Jordan Lamar=Pippen. Phil will make it happen, trust the lakers will be ok.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:47 AM
This year its going to happen correctly. Remember the playoffs? Kobe is upset Shaq got a ring before him so he will prove that he can lead his team as well. Kobe=Jordan Lamar=Pippen. Phil will make it happen, trust the lakers will be ok.


lol please dont compare Kobe to Jordan.....Kobe is not worthy enough to tie Jordans shoes. By the way Maurice Evans impressed me to last night I will be interested to see how many shot attempts he will get playing with Kobe.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 11:50 AM
Ok, for those that understand BASKETBALL, you also understand that the reason why certain teams are better than others are

#1-coaching
#2-the system

the Suns benefitted from both. They brought in a coach that turned up the tempo, and then said "let's outscore everybody to win, forget defense) & so they ran out there with a small lineup and out scored everybody. Putting in Steve Nash to run an offense like that was GENIUS, and don't forget that they were the MOST successful when they had Nash, Joe Johnson, Richardson, Marion and Stoudamire-they lost in the Conf Finals-do a VERY VERY good Spurs team... (that was 2004)

Then last year, Stoudamire was hurt-so Nash had to take the reigns with Marion and some pretty good role players *BUT* the system NOR the coach changed (I'm going somewhere, so just hold on...) so while they lost Stoudamire, Johnson and Richardson-they gained Boris Diaw (who has turned out to be a REALLY good player), Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Tim Thomas (the X-Factor in the playoffs) & then once they got to the playoffs, they benefitted from playing the Lakers, then Clips and then they FINALLY couldn't hide behind weak teams to get to the finals...they lost to the Mavs (who had to play the Grizzlies, and Spurs...a MUCH harder road).

Now, the same is true for the Lakers...they have the same winning formula-

"The Lord of the Rings" (Philip) & the Triangle offense which pretty much transformed Michael Jordan from "showboat, ball-hog no winner" to "6 time NBA finals MVP"--and that is why the Lakers won without KB24 (that, and the fact that the Suns have no idea what defense is)--it's not because they are BETTER without him, it's that they played the same system they employed in the playoffs last year (which got them a 3-1 lead) but tonight it paid off. The Lakers are good team...and without KB24, they'd probably end up winning around 30-35 games based on hard work and a little bit of Luck, but WITH him, they will end up either the #6 or #7 team in the playoffs.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:51 AM
lol please dont compare Kobe to Jordan.....Kobe is not worthy enough to tie Jordans shoes. By the way Maurice Evans impressed me to last night I will be interested to see how many shot attempts he will get playing with Kobe.

Man you hating. I am comparing the Chicago Bulls of old to these Lakers. In Phil's system, Kobe will be Jordan and Odom will be Pip. But with a better frontline than the bulls ever had.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:52 AM
Ok, for those that understand BASKETBALL, you also understand that the reason why certain teams are better than others are

#1-coaching
#2-the system

the Suns benefitted from both. They brought in a coach that turned up the tempo, and then said "let's outscore everybody to win, forget defense) & so they ran out there with a small lineup and out scored everybody. Putting in Steve Nash to run an offense like that was GENIUS, and don't forget that they were the MOST successful when they had Nash, Joe Johnson, Richardson, Marion and Stoudamire-they lost in the Conf Finals-do a VERY VERY good Spurs team... (that was 2004)

Then last year, Stoudamire was hurt-so Nash had to take the reigns with Marion and some pretty good role players *BUT* the system NOR the coach changed (I'm going somewhere, so just hold on...) so while they lost Stoudamire, Johnson and Richardson-they gained Boris Diaw (who has turned out to be a REALLY good player), Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas and Tim Thomas (the X-Factor in the playoffs) & then once they got to the playoffs, they benefitted from playing the Lakers, then Clips and then they FINALLY couldn't hide behind weak teams to get to the finals...they lost to the Mavs (who had to play the Grizzlies, and Spurs...a MUCH harder road).

Now, the same is true for the Lakers...they have the same winning formula-

"The Lord of the Rings" (Philip) & the Triangle offense which pretty much transformed Michael Jordan from "showboat, ball-hog no winner" to "6 time NBA finals MVP"--and that is why the Lakers won without KB24 (that, and the fact that the Suns have no idea what defense is)--it's not because they are BETTER without him, it's that they played the same system they employed in the playoffs last year (which got them a 3-1 lead) but tonight it paid off. The Lakers are good team...and without KB24, they'd probably end up winning around 30-35 games based on hard work and a little bit of Luck, but WITH him, they will end up either the #6 or #7 team in the playoffs.

Try number 1 in the Pacific Division

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:54 AM
The Clips are a "weak" team? :confused: Brand, Mobley, Cassell......hmmmm interesting.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:56 AM
Man you hating. I am comparing the Chicago Bulls of old to these Lakers. In Phil's system, Kobe will be Jordan and Odom will be Pip. But with a better frontline than the bulls ever had.


Nobody is hating but at best Kobe is a poor mans Micheal Jordan. I know Phil wants to make the Lakers like the old Bulls team and I think it can work if Kobe learns how to trust his teammates. I think by him watching the game last night and seeing them win without him is gonna help him learn to trust them more.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 11:58 AM
Nobody is hating but at best Kobe is a poor mans Micheal Jordan. I know Phil wants to make the Lakers like the old Bulls team and I think it can work if Kobe learns how to trust his teammates. I think by him watching the game last night and seeing them win without him is gonna help him learn to trust them more.

Gilbert Areanas is a poor man's kobe. And i can quote ESPN on that

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 11:59 AM
Gilbert Areanas is a poor man's kobe. And i can quote ESPN on that


Ummm ok your point? :confused:

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:02 PM
I agree fam they have a solid frontline now I hope Kobe learns to use them.
See, here's the problem that I have with people saying Kobe should "learn how to use them" and "Lamar could be good but Kobe is holding him back" all that blah blah blah see, I don't see this as KOBE'S fault, I see this as a personality issue...sure, there's some nights that Kobe forces too much and doesn't get his teammates involved...but then again, there's some nights when all SUPER STARS do that, that's why they are SUPERSTARS. They go out there and make the impossible happen and put the team on their back... but they are in a no win situation...

Remember game 7 of last year? When Kobe let his teammates be more aggressive and he trusted them? What happened? How much did they lose by? 30?

See, EVERYBODY hates on Kobe because he's the best in the league and they can't be him and they hate that he's so much like Jordan that it sickens them...cuz I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when D Wade wouldn't pass the ball in the finals. I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when Lebron completely DESTROYED the Wack Wizards. But let Kobe take 20-30 shots, and "he's a ball hog, he doesn't get his teammates involved"... it's a double standard that he will be judged on all his life, because he's Kobe.

Straight up, if those boys would go out there and BALL, and dominate like they KNOW they can, Kobe will have NO problem giving the ball up. funny how NOBODY accused him of being a ball hog in the All-Star games...

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:04 PM
The Clips are a "weak" team? :confused: Brand, Mobley, Cassell......hmmmm interesting.
You and I both know the Clips are a "weak" team. Having good players doesn't make you a good team... the Clips OVER acheived last year... but here's the diff between the Clips and Lakers... if you put the Clips up against ANY of the top teams in the league, they will fall and lose...they have no leader...they have no one with a killer instinct-Cassell USED TO be that dude-but now he's just too old...they need Maggette to step up or somebody before they will be taken as a SERIOUS contender

dogfight!
11-01-2006, 12:07 PM
See, here's the problem that I have with people saying Kobe should "learn how to use them" and "Lamar could be good but Kobe is holding him back" all that blah blah blah see, I don't see this as KOBE'S fault, I see this as a personality issue...sure, there's some nights that Kobe forces too much and doesn't get his teammates involved...but then again, there's some nights when all SUPER STARS do that, that's why they are SUPERSTARS. They go out there and make the impossible happen and put the team on their back... but they are in a no win situation...

Remember game 7 of last year? When Kobe let his teammates be more aggressive and he trusted them? What happened? How much did they lose by? 30?

See, EVERYBODY hates on Kobe because he's the best in the league and they can't be him and they hate that he's so much like Jordan that it sickens them...cuz I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when D Wade wouldn't pass the ball in the finals. I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when Lebron completely DESTROYED the Wack Wizards. But let Kobe take 20-30 shots, and "he's a ball hog, he doesn't get his teammates involved"... it's a double standard that he will be judged on all his life, because he's Kobe.

Straight up, if those boys would go out there and BALL, and dominate like they KNOW they can, Kobe will have NO problem giving the ball up. funny how NOBODY accused him of being a ball hog in the All-Star games...

Y'all should listen to dude. He's droppin knowledge on y'all boys.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 12:09 PM
See, here's the problem that I have with people saying Kobe should "learn how to use them" and "Lamar could be good but Kobe is holding him back" all that blah blah blah see, I don't see this as KOBE'S fault, I see this as a personality issue...sure, there's some nights that Kobe forces too much and doesn't get his teammates involved...but then again, there's some nights when all SUPER STARS do that, that's why they are SUPERSTARS. They go out there and make the impossible happen and put the team on their back... but they are in a no win situation...

Remember game 7 of last year? When Kobe let his teammates be more aggressive and he trusted them? What happened? How much did they lose by? 30?

See, EVERYBODY hates on Kobe because he's the best in the league and they can't be him and they hate that he's so much like Jordan that it sickens them...cuz I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when D Wade wouldn't pass the ball in the finals. I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when Lebron completely DESTROYED the Wack Wizards. But let Kobe take 20-30 shots, and "he's a ball hog, he doesn't get his teammates involved"... it's a double standard that he will be judged on all his life, because he's Kobe.

Straight up, if those boys would go out there and BALL, and dominate like they KNOW they can, Kobe will have NO problem giving the ball up. funny how NOBODY accused him of being a ball hog in the All-Star games...


Preach, Tabernacle!

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 12:11 PM
You and I both know the Clips are a "weak" team. Having good players doesn't make you a good team... the Clips OVER acheived last year... but here's the diff between the Clips and Lakers... if you put the Clips up against ANY of the top teams in the league, they will fall and lose...they have no leader...they have no one with a killer instinct-Cassell USED TO be that dude-but now he's just too old...they need Maggette to step up or somebody before they will be taken as a SERIOUS contender


Fam what makes them a "weak" team that "over acheived"? (sounds kind of contradictory if u ask me). The Clippers have a soild team filled with veterans and young players as well as a go to guy in Elton Brand. I was honestly shocked that the suns were able to beat them last year.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:19 PM
Fam what makes them a "weak" team that "over acheived"? (sounds kind of contradictory if u ask me). The Clippers have a soild team filled with veterans and young players as well as a go to guy in Elton Brand. I was honestly shocked that the suns were able to beat them last year.
QS, I watch the games bro. And I don't mean to be condescending, so forgive me if I am, but how many Clipper games did you actually watch? They are a decent team that is LEARNING how to win games-but honestly, look who they played last year in the playoffs...they played a depleted Nuggets team that had injury after injury and they TANKED the last game of the season in order to play them instead of the Grizzlies (look it up if you think I'm lying)-so they beat the Nuggets, and then they ran into a depleted Suns team (which imo wasn't all that to begin with) and LOST.

Now, if you watched the games, you would have noticed that they DO have talent! They are 2 deep at most positions and of course with E. Brand they are always going to be in a game, BUT...AGAIN...you gotta watch the games and see how they play! They simpley do NOT have a leader that they can count on to get them a consistent 30-NOR do they have someone that will take and make that *clutch shot* when needed. I know some will say that's Sam Cassell, but again, he's past his prime. What they need is for Maggette to get healthy and then for him to ball like he knows he can. They need for their young pg Livingston to realize his potential and play up to it. They need for Mobley to do more than just 3's and play no defense, he must be involved in the offense! If they do these things effectively, then they will be good, but for now, they are a weak team.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 12:26 PM
See, here's the problem that I have with people saying Kobe should "learn how to use them" and "Lamar could be good but Kobe is holding him back" all that blah blah blah see, I don't see this as KOBE'S fault, I see this as a personality issue...sure, there's some nights that Kobe forces too much and doesn't get his teammates involved...but then again, there's some nights when all SUPER STARS do that, that's why they are SUPERSTARS. They go out there and make the impossible happen and put the team on their back... but they are in a no win situation...


Fam I agree with you that there are times in which ANY superstar has to put his team on his back and take over when they arent playing good so you get no argument from me but you will see my argument in a sec.



Remember game 7 of last year? When Kobe let his teammates be more aggressive and he trusted them? What happened? How much did they lose by? 30?

I will tell you what happend its coming. :)



See, EVERYBODY hates on Kobe because he's the best in the league and they can't be him and they hate that he's so much like Jordan that it sickens them...cuz I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when D Wade wouldn't pass the ball in the finals. I didn't hear ANYBODY complaining when Lebron completely DESTROYED the Wack Wizards. But let Kobe take 20-30 shots, and "he's a ball hog, he doesn't get his teammates involved"... it's a double standard that he will be judged on all his life, because he's Kobe.

Straight up, if those boys would go out there and BALL, and dominate like they KNOW they can, Kobe will have NO problem giving the ball up. funny how NOBODY accused him of being a ball hog in the All-Star games...


Ok let me break this down to you do you have a pin and paper handy cause you are about to take some notes. The problem is consistency fam....Kobe consistently does not trust his teamates.....he consistently forces so many shots in which he has teamates wide open. If you watch the games he will literally yell at his teamates for not passing the ball and he whines like a 5 year old when cats take shots and misses them. So you have a team who had been conditioned to think "well this is Kobes team we have to give him the ball" so when Kobe finnally decides to let them "do their thang" they look like lost puppies because they have not been conditioned to do that. If from jump Kobe establishes that he will use his teamates and not scold them everytime they miss a shot then we will not see what happend last year in the playoffs. We will see other teammates other than Kobe stepping up and not freezing up when the ball is in their hands with the shot clock running out. Kobe being hurt to start the season is the greatest thing that has happend to the team cause they are learning that they can win without him. Also Kobe is seeing that his team can score without him so I hope to see him throwing the ball down into Bynum or kicking it out to Evans so that they can do their thing. Normally in the first half of a game Kobe is more generous but when it comes to the second half is when he turns into a "ball hog" some will say he has to but I agree differently. I'm telling you it makes every difference in the world if Kobe would go up to a teammate and say "shoot the ball your open dont pass it to me". If that starts to happen then you will see Kobe not having to shoot 25 times in the second half to keep his team in the game. Bottom line is this the Lakers can be a pretty good team if the other players gain the confidence from their superstar that they have the "green light" to shoot the ball and not always having to look for Kobe when the shot clock is running low.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 12:34 PM
QS, I watch the games bro. And I don't mean to be condescending, so forgive me if I am, but how many Clipper games did you actually watch? They are a decent team that is LEARNING how to win games-but honestly, look who they played last year in the playoffs...they played a depleted Nuggets team that had injury after injury and they TANKED the last game of the season in order to play them instead of the Grizzlies (look it up if you think I'm lying)-so they beat the Nuggets, and then they ran into a depleted Suns team (which imo wasn't all that to begin with) and LOST.

Now, if you watched the games, you would have noticed that they DO have talent! They are 2 deep at most positions and of course with E. Brand they are always going to be in a game, BUT...AGAIN...you gotta watch the games and see how they play! They simpley do NOT have a leader that they can count on to get them a consistent 30-NOR do they have someone that will take and make that *clutch shot* when needed. I know some will say that's Sam Cassell, but again, he's past his prime. What they need is for Maggette to get healthy and then for him to ball like he knows he can. They need for their young pg Livingston to realize his potential and play up to it. They need for Mobley to do more than just 3's and play no defense, he must be involved in the offense! If they do these things effectively, then they will be good, but for now, they are a weak team.

Fam I watched plenty of Clippers game last year because my man Bernard(the dude you met) has the NBA package thing and he grew up with Sam Cassell so we tend to watch them play quite often. Bottom line is that you and me have different defenitions of what a "weak" team is. To win 47 games in the Western Conference is an accomplishment a "weak" team could not do that. I know you want the Suns trip to the conference finals to look like a "cake walk" but they had to get pass a pretty solid Clippers team.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 12:43 PM
Just to make myself clear I do not "hate" on Kobe I think he is a great player and exciting to watch but I do feel that in order for the Lakers to be a serious contender that there has got to be some changes made on his part. Jordan had to make some changes for the Bulls to do their thang and in a similar fashion Kobe has to do the same. A player as good as Lamar should not be averaging under 15 ppg but that is what he averaged last year. Kobe and Lamar need to learn how to play off each other cause when that happens we might indeed see the next Jordan and Pippen. As a representative of HCR Kobe we beg you to please share the ball with Lamar :)

dogfight!
11-01-2006, 12:44 PM
Just to make myself clear I do not "hate" on Kobe I think he is a great player and exciting to watch but I do feel that in order for the Lakers to be a serious contender that there has got to be some changes made on his part. Jordan had to make some changes for the Bulls to do their thang and in a similar fashion Kobe has to do the same. A player as good as Lamar should not be averaging under 15 ppg but that is what he averaged last year. Kobe and Lamar need to learn how to play off each other cause when that happens we might indeed see the next Jordan and Pippen. As a representative of HCR Kobe we beg you to please share the ball with Lamar :)

dude, you make a lot of assumptions.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 12:45 PM
Fam I watched plenty of Clippers game last year because my man Bernard(the dude you met) has the NBA package thing and he grew up with Sam Cassell so we tend to watch them play quite often. Bottom line is that you and me have different defenitions of what a "weak" team is. To win 47 games in the Western Conference is an accomplishment a "weak" team could not do that. I know you want the Suns trip to the conference finals to look like a "cake walk" but they had to get pass a pretty solid Clippers team.

6. Revenge of the young point guards
You can pencil the following 25-and-under players as starters or solid rotation guys at the very least: Chris Paul; Shaun Livingston; Rajon Rondo and Bassy Telfair; T.J. Ford and Jose Calderon; Ray Felton; Deron Williams; Jarrett Jack; Tony Parker (you forget, he's only 24); Mo Williams and Leandro Barbosa (two hybrid guards, but whatever); Devin Harris; Jameer Nelson; Kirk Hinrich; Vassilis Spanoulis; Luke Ridnour; Marcus Williams (yes, the Laptop Guy); and possibly, Jordan Farmar (let's throw him in here because he'll be stealing Smush Parker's job before Christmas). - Bill Simmons

And if you dont know Bill, you dont know Basketball

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:47 PM
OK QS, NOW you and I are getting somewhere...I actually agree with your statement.
... however, at the same time, I WILL say that last night's game was a little deceptive...at first, they were getting their [heads] handed to them... if they were playing a team that played even a little bit of defense, it would have been a blow out and we'd be talking about how much they NEED Kobe instead of how now it's like they don't :rolleyes: (not saying that's what YOU said...I've been to other sites where this is mentioned)

AND-keep in mind that we don't really know how "good" these players are yet. Sure, they are pros, but if you remember the Bulls teams without Mike, they could win every now and then too (and don't forget, in the year he left, they won 55 games WITHOUT him)-but LONG TERM can Lamar Odom avg 30? uhhh no. It's just not inside of him. There are certain players that have that "it" and some that don't. People like Lamar Odom, Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett etc-these guys are people who don't have that "it"...you can't really describe it, but they can't be "the man" on their teams... sure, they can get you in the 20's for points, but to be asked to carry a team and finish, they can't do it...but when you say Allen Iverson, Tracy Mcgrady, Kobe Bryant, D. Wade and a few others-THESE guys can avg 40 for a month if their teams needs them too...you can dump them on a team of scrubs and watch them dominate and do what they do, because they have "it".

Let's think about this fa real...do we REALLY think the Lakers will be the MOST successful with Kobe ONLY taking 20 shots, Lamar getting 20, Bynum getting 15, Evans getting 10 and down the line? NO. Not yet. They are not the Bulls in the 90's... I agree that Kobe should go out and look to get them invovled in the 1st half and take over IF NEEDED to keep it close, but if in the 2nd half they are down by double digits, you don't keep putting quarters in a soda machine if there's no sodas comin out pimpin (Kobe's mistake in Game 7), you go out there and you DO WHAT SUPERSTARS DO.

-OH, and Btw, I laughed at the way you described Kobe with his teammates, does that remind you of anybody else and how he treated HIS teammates? (I'll give ya hint-read the book "The Jordan Rules" sometime and see what HIS TEAMMATES said about him and how they get treated)

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 12:48 PM
dude, you make a lot of assumptions.


Fam this whole thread is "opinion" based is it not? So everybody is making assumptions not just me. Do you agree with me that Lamar should not be averaging under 15ppg?

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:49 PM
6. Revenge of the young point guards
You can pencil the following 25-and-under players as starters or solid rotation guys at the very least: Chris Paul; Shaun Livingston; Rajon Rondo and Bassy Telfair; T.J. Ford and Jose Calderon; Ray Felton; Deron Williams; Jarrett Jack; Tony Parker (you forget, he's only 24); Mo Williams and Leandro Barbosa (two hybrid guards, but whatever); Devin Harris; Jameer Nelson; Kirk Hinrich; Vassilis Spanoulis; Luke Ridnour; Marcus Williams (yes, the Laptop Guy); and possibly, Jordan Farmar (let's throw him in here because he'll be stealing Smush Parker's job before Christmas). - Bill Simmons

And if you dont know Bill, you dont know Basketball
Yo! You read Bill Simmons too? I've been reading his columns for the last 5 yrs!!! :D

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:50 PM
Fam this whole thread is "opinion" based is it not? So everybody is making assumptions not just me. Do you agree with me that Lamar should not be averaging under 15ppg?
Lamar SHOULD be averaging over 15ppg, but the fact that he isn't doesn't mean it's Kobe's fault.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 12:55 PM
FACT: When Pippen played with Michael Jordan, he only averaged OVER 20 pts, TWICE (he avg 20 pts or higher 2 other times...when was that? 1994 when Jordan left, and 1995 when Jordan came back late in the season)

FACT: Lamar Odom has NEVER avg more than 18 ppg (his highest was 17.2)-yet he's only played with Kobe for 2 out of the 7 seasons he's been in the league. Yet, it's Kobe's fault? :confused:

Just something to think about....

dogfight!
11-01-2006, 12:55 PM
Fam this whole thread is "opinion" based is it not? So everybody is making assumptions not just me. Do you agree with me that Lamar should not be averaging under 15ppg?

The assumptions i'm referring to are the ones about Kobe whinning about not getting the ball everytime. Its reflex to complain a bit if you're open and someone else takes a shot and misses. In fact, if you don't say something i'd be worried. You also said he doesnt trust his teammates. If thats the case, isnt trust earned? Maybe they havent earned it yet.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Yo! You read Bill Simmons too? I've been reading his columns for the last 5 yrs!!! :D

Bill is a Beast. I'm an Espn Insider. I love Sports man.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:00 PM
OK QS, NOW you and I are getting somewhere...I actually agree with your statement.
... however, at the same time, I WILL say that last night's game was a little deceptive...at first, they were getting their [heads] handed to them... if they were playing a team that played even a little bit of defense, it would have been a blow out and we'd be talking about how much they NEED Kobe instead of how now it's like they don't :rolleyes: (not saying that's what YOU said...I've been to other sites where this is mentioned)


Dont get me wrong I know last night was just one game so I am not gonna get carried away and think the Lakers dont need Kobe. However last night showed us a lot did it not? The Lakers were down by I think 18 I might be wrong but they faught back into the game to give a convincing win. They worked as a unit (in a way that we dont see to often when Kobe is around) and everybody was able to contribute. C'mon we saw Luke Walton taking cats to the baskets. The Lakers "role" players might not be as bad as cats might think and I think last night gave us an indication of that.




AND-keep in mind that we don't really know how "good" these players are yet. Sure, they are pros, but if you remember the Bulls teams without Mike, they could win every now and then too (and don't forget, in the year he left, they won 55 games WITHOUT him)-but LONG TERM can Lamar Odom avg 30? uhhh no. It's just not inside of him. There are certain players that have that "it" and some that don't. People like Lamar Odom, Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett etc-these guys are people who don't have that "it"...you can't really describe it, but they can't be "the man" on their teams... sure, they can get you in the 20's for points, but to be asked to carry a team and finish, they can't do it...but when you say Allen Iverson, Tracy Mcgrady, Kobe Bryant, D. Wade and a few others-THESE guys can avg 40 for a month if their teams needs them too...you can dump them on a team of scrubs and watch them dominate and do what they do, because they have "it".

Oh I know Lamar is not gonna give you 30 plus points per game however he should be giving you more than 14.8 ppg agreed? Kobe averaging about 30 and Lamar averaging about 20 would be ideal IMHO.



Let's think about this fa real...do we REALLY think the Lakers will be the MOST successful with Kobe ONLY taking 20 shots, Lamar getting 20, Bynum getting 15, Evans getting 10 and down the line? NO. Not yet. They are not the Bulls in the 90's... I agree that Kobe should go out and look to get them invovled in the 1st half and take over IF NEEDED to keep it close, but if in the 2nd half they are down by double digits, you don't keep putting quarters in a soda machine if there's no sodas comin out pimpin (Kobe's mistake in Game 7), you go out there and you DO WHAT SUPERSTARS DO.

Actually I do think the Lakers will be a more successful team if the scoring was a little more balanced. It will make it harder for teams to gaurd them.



-OH, and Btw, I laughed at the way you described Kobe with his teammates, does that remind you of anybody else and how he treated HIS teammates? (I'll give ya hint-read the book "The Jordan Rules" sometime and see what HIS TEAMMATES said about him and how they get treated)

Difference is Jordan trusted his teammates and they knew that....think about it they are in the championship and the game is on the line and one year he kicks it out to Paxson for a game winning shot and then another year he kicks it out to Kerr.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:02 PM
Lamar SHOULD be averaging over 15ppg, but the fact that he isn't doesn't mean it's Kobe's fault.


Like I said everybody is giving their "opinions" correct? In my opinion the fact that Lamar is not averaging over 15 is cause he is not getting enough shot attempts due to Kobe. Once again this is an "opinion".

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:06 PM
FACT: When Pippen played with Michael Jordan, he only averaged OVER 20 pts, TWICE (he avg 20 pts or higher 2 other times...when was that? 1994 when Jordan left, and 1995 when Jordan came back late in the season)

FACT: Lamar Odom has NEVER avg more than 18 ppg (his highest was 17.2)-yet he's only played with Kobe for 2 out of the 7 seasons he's been in the league. Yet, it's Kobe's fault? :confused:

Just something to think about....


Lamar was only getting better but as soon as he joined the Lakers his ppg went down. Something interesting to look at is the fact that his field goal % has actually gone up since joining the Lakers but his ppg has gone down......the difference is he is not getting as many touches. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lamar_odom/career_stats.html

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 01:11 PM
I PERSONALLY think Lamar is on the wrong team. He just doesn't have what it takes to ride wit Kobe. I think Kobe would be ideal with someone like Mike Bibby or KG.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:11 PM
The assumptions i'm referring to are the ones about Kobe whinning about not getting the ball everytime. Its reflex to complain a bit if you're open and someone else takes a shot and misses. In fact, if you don't say something i'd be worried. You also said he doesnt trust his teammates. If thats the case, isnt trust earned? Maybe they havent earned it yet.


Him "whining" is not an assumption cause for some reason camera men love to film Kobe when they are on offense and you can see him getting all hot and bothered when he does not get the ball. How can they earn his trust if they are not giving a chance fam? You cant play 30 games and be a "ball hog" and then one night decide to see what your team can do and expect them to be comfortable in that role. There needs to be consistency so early in the season Kobe needs to establish that he will distribute the ball to his team not just in the 1st quater but for the whole game.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 01:13 PM
Yo what is everybody's thoughts on the Bulls? Man, I didn't think they were that were gonna be good (another team that looked good on paper) but MAN... not only are they deep, but they are tough, defensive minded, athletic, and focused. They SCARE ME

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:15 PM
I PERSONALLY think Lamar is on the wrong team. He just doesn't have what it takes to ride wit Kobe. I think Kobe would be ideal with someone like Mike Bibby or KG.


lol Mike Bibby and Kobe would never work they are both guards who like having the rock. KG and Kobe might possibly work cause Kobe has proven he can work (most of the time) with a big man however I think Kobe and Duncan would work better. Similar to Shaq Duncan is a back to the basket player as opposed to KG who sometimes like to have the ball at the top of the key. Why do you think Lamar doesnt have what it takes to ride with Kobe...the dude shot close to 50% from the field last year so what is he doing wrong?

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:16 PM
Yo what is everybody's thoughts on the Bulls? Man, I didn't think they were that were gonna be good (another team that looked good on paper) but MAN... not only are they deep, but they are tough, defensive minded, athletic, and focused. They SCARE ME


I missed the game last night so I didnt get to see what was good with them but there victory looks mighty impressive.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 01:22 PM
lol Mike Bibby and Kobe would never work they are both guards who like having the rock. KG and Kobe might possibly work cause Kobe has proven he can work (most of the time) with a big man however I think Kobe and Duncan would work better. Similar to Shaq Duncan is a back to the basket player as opposed to KG who sometimes like to have the ball at the top of the key. Why do you think Lamar doesnt have what it takes to ride with Kobe...the dude shot close to 50% from the field last year so what is he doing wrong?
I just think it takes someone with a tougher mind and the ability to play their game no matter what is what it takes to play with someone like Kobe (who is a narcissitic ASSASSIN with the game to back up his narcissism). The people that played with Mike learned 1 thing, and that is-Do what I do well, DON'T try and do what I can't. Kerr, Armstrong, Hodges, Paxson, Tucker-they all shot 3's well & made their open shots. Ho Grant rebounded and could hit an open 15 footer. Longely, Wennington, Cartwright, Williams, the other Williams, Stacy King all rebounded and could hit an open 8 footer...Pippen and Kukoc were the others that could do more and ALL could defend. That is why they could play with Mike.

Playing with Kobe requires people who KNOW their role and will DO what they do. Lamar seems like someone lacking in confidence who has to be forced to play the game at the level that he should be at all the time...I have a player JUST like him on my bball team that I coach...he is a REALLY good player, but when surrounded by OTHER good players, he defers to them and is NOT aggressive AT.ALL., but when I put him out there with scrubs, he shines. Like I said, some people have "it", some dont.

CHRISTion
11-01-2006, 01:24 PM
I missed the game last night so I didnt get to see what was good with them but there victory looks mighty impressive.
Man, look at their lineup! http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=261031014

dude, they go 11 deep and ALL contribute. It's crazy. they are scrappy, athletic and they can shoot (and when they miss they have ben Wallace, PJ Brown and Tyrus Thomas who can literally jump out the gym to clean up the mess)

StreetSermonz
11-01-2006, 01:25 PM
Paul Pierce for MVP!

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:25 PM
I just think it takes someone with a tougher mind and the ability to play their game no matter what is what it takes to play with someone like Kobe (who is a narcissitic ASSASSIN with the game to back up his narcissism). The people that played with Mike learned 1 thing, and that is-Do what I do well, DON'T try and do what I can't. Kerr, Armstrong, Hodges, Paxson, Tucker-they all shot 3's well & made their open shots. Ho Grant rebounded and could hit an open 15 footer. Longely, Wennington, Cartwright, Williams, the other Williams, Stacy King all rebounded and could hit an open 8 footer...Pippen and Kukoc were the others that could do more and ALL could defend. That is why they could play with Mike.

Playing with Kobe requires people who KNOW their role and will DO what they do. Lamar seems like someone lacking in confidence who has to be forced to play the game at the level that he should be at all the time...I have a player JUST like him on my bball team that I coach...he is a REALLY good player, but when surrounded by OTHER good players, he defers to them and is NOT aggressive AT.ALL., but when I put him out there with scrubs, he shines. Like I said, some people have "it", some dont.


ROTFL if your the coach your team is probably garbage......seriously though you might be right I do feel that Lamar should be a little more aggressive but at the sametime Kobe should be more willing to give Lamar some of the shots that he would normally take. I think both of them need to sit down and talk and really figure this thing out. From what I heard this summer they got close after Lamar's baby died so hopefully we wil see them working better together.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:27 PM
Man, look at their lineup! http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=261031014

dude, they go 11 deep and ALL contribute. It's crazy. they are scrappy, athletic and they can shoot (and when they miss they have ben Wallace, PJ Brown and Tyrus Thomas who can literally jump out the gym to clean up the mess)


Kirk is an underrated player he has mad talent but ummmm dang what happend with Gordon last night. :eek:

Danielle
11-01-2006, 01:29 PM
DETROIT BASKETBALL GO PISTONS!!!!!!

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 01:31 PM
DETROIT BASKETBALL GO PISTONS!!!!!!


ummm no females allowed in this thread unless you are Reggie Millers sister and know a thing or 2 about bball.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 01:35 PM
ummm no females allowed in this thread unless you are Reggie Millers sister and know a thing or 2 about bball.

Ha, or Michelle Tafoya

jeyjey34
11-01-2006, 01:45 PM
Ha, or Michelle Tafoya

Or the beautiful Lisa Salters. :)

http://www.super-hair.net/Salters8.jpg

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 01:46 PM
Or the beautiful Lisa Salters. :)

http://www.super-hair.net/Salters8.jpg

Right Right, im wit you kid

Danielle
11-01-2006, 02:45 PM
boooooooooooo, you sexist men:p , ***leaving to find Al Sharpton, I need a lawyer, a classic case of not abiding according to the laws of Afirmative Action**** don't want to be in your sticky boys club anyways..........

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 02:46 PM
boooooooooooo, you sexist men:p , ***leaving to find Al Sharpton, I need a lawyer, a classic case of not abiding according to the laws of Afirmative Action**** don't want to be in your sticky boys club anyways..........

peace then

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 02:48 PM
boooooooooooo, you sexist men:p , ***leaving to find Al Sharpton, I need a lawyer, a classic case of not abiding according to the laws of Afirmative Action**** don't want to be in your sticky boys club anyways..........


If you want to start a WNBA thread I promise to stay out of it......deal?

jeyjey34
11-01-2006, 02:49 PM
If you want to start a WNBA thread I promise to stay out of it......deal?

HAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!! :D

Danielle
11-01-2006, 02:51 PM
If you want to start a WNBA thread I promise to stay out of it......deal?


booooooo, I don't like the WNBA:p

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 02:53 PM
booooooo, I don't like the WNBA:p


Why....is it because women playing basketball is not entertaining? You sexist.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 02:57 PM
booooooo, I don't like the WNBA:p

Who does?

Danielle
11-01-2006, 03:04 PM
Why....is it because women playing basketball is not entertaining? You sexist.


whatever, you guys are sexist **dailing Al Sharpton as we speak****

Danielle
11-01-2006, 03:05 PM
Who does?


swoops and the rest of her girls from the Shocks are going to gang up on your bra mane:rolleyes:

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 03:57 PM
swoops and the rest of her girls from the Shocks are going to gang up on your bra mane:rolleyes:

Even tho we one the Championsip no body really cared. College girls is way better

Kool-Aid Man
11-01-2006, 06:06 PM
Kobe can play consistent? So then what happend in the Suns series last year? Wade showed everybody the bizness last year I let the results speak for themselves. You must have missed last years playoffs so I will take that in consideration.


Wade without Shaq playing consistently playing well is just..... look at last night.

I saw the playoffs last year folk and Kobe practically gave up the last few games trying to prove a point.

And again Kobe's D > Wade's D > Bron's D

Aquila
11-01-2006, 06:34 PM
Kobe gave up to prove a point.

Chill about last year cuz haters will say silly stuff like that and Kobe stans will say anything to make Kobe look right.

Either way it's pointless because last night showed this team is following Kobes lead of being hard workers and deadly. When he gets back it's really on.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Wade without Shaq playing consistently playing well is just..... look at last night.


uhhh Shaq didnt play consistently a lot of the games in the playoffs such as in the Pistons series. Wade still lead them to victory in that series. Lets not make to big of a deal out of last night.



I saw the playoffs last year folk and Kobe practically gave up the last few games trying to prove a point.


lol so Kobe didnt come through to prove a point? hahah that sounds like a Christion type argument.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 06:50 PM
Kobe gave up to prove a point.

Chill about last year cuz haters will say silly stuff like that and Kobe stans will say anything to make Kobe look right.

Either way it's pointless because last night showed this team is following Kobes lead of being hard workers and deadly. When he gets back it's really on.


Wrong....last night showed that the team had great chemistry without Kobe being around shooting 75% of the shots.

Aquila
11-01-2006, 06:59 PM
Yup cuz in your mind they would have played like that the last 2 seasons. If you honestly believe that, save your Laker arguments for someone more knowledgable.

It's been well documented they didn't play with any fire and with no fear till the end of last season and the playoffs. For the 50th time you seen the results last year where better than expected. The players worked hard all offseason and know the system now.

So they are executing and playing with fire. When Kobe gets back he'll play like the Phoenix series and even more productive.

If you want to hate go to a hate site cuz your arguments have no validity which you been complaining about others posting in this thread. I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt but now it seems to be just hate.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 07:00 PM
Yup cuz in your mind they would have played like that the last 2 seasons. If you honestly believe that, save your Laker arguments for someone more knowledgable.

It's been well documented they didn't play with any fire and with no fear till the end of last season and the playoffs. For the 50th time you seen the results last year where better than expected. The players worked hard all offseason and know the system now.

So they are executing and playing with fire. When Kobe gets back he'll play like the Phoenix series and even more productive.

If you want to hate go to a hate site cuz your arguments have no validity which you been complaining about others posting in this thread. I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt but now it seems to be just hate.

Peace

Aquila
11-01-2006, 07:06 PM
I want peace but I also want good discussions not bias opinions.

Conviction Music
11-01-2006, 07:25 PM
I want peace but I also want good discussions not bias opinions.
No Peace as in Peace out lol, Get out the thread

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 07:41 PM
Yup cuz in your mind they would have played like that the last 2 seasons. If you honestly believe that, save your Laker arguments for someone more knowledgable.

It's been well documented they didn't play with any fire and with no fear till the end of last season and the playoffs. For the 50th time you seen the results last year where better than expected. The players worked hard all offseason and know the system now.

So they are executing and playing with fire. When Kobe gets back he'll play like the Phoenix series and even more productive.

If you want to hate go to a hate site cuz your arguments have no validity which you been complaining about others posting in this thread. I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt but now it seems to be just hate.

First of all fam its really not that serious this is suppose to be a light hearted discussion for basketball lovers so forgive me if I assume that it seems like your getting offended with me disagreeing with you. Most of the time I am being sarcastic with cats such as CHRISTion cause thats my boy and we always debate bball and we actually agree on more things than we disagree on. I do not hate on Kobe Bryant how many times do I have to say on this thread that he is one of the top 3 players in the league now does that sound like a statement from somebody that hates on dude? It seems like based on the fact I am not calling him Jordan Jr or saying he is the best in the game then cats think I hate on him. Ok let me give you some positives about Kobe some of which I have already said in this thread so that you and other cats dont think I hate on him. In my opinion Kobe is the best one on one player in the game and if there are 10 seconds left on the clock I want the ball in his hand. In addition Kobe is a great man to man defender which I dont think he gets enough credit for he can lock down on a player and keep him in check similar to how he did Iverson a few years back in the finals. He is a great scorer the dude can score from anywhere on the court and he is a threat whenever he has the ball in his hand. I could go on on on listing things I like about Kobe so hopefully you see that I do not hate on the guy. Also this time last year if you were around here I was debating cats telling them Kobe was the best in the league so just cause my position has changed does not mean that I hate on Kobe. I am trying to be as unbias as I can I do not have a personal agenda to hate on Kobe so please dont assume that. I feel that Kobe needs to work on some areas as a player in order for him to take his team to the next level as well as be the best in the game and that is all I am trying to get across in all my posts. Now when your ready to drop your whole "he is hating on Kobe" mindset hopefully you can deal with ALL of what I have been saying in all my posts.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 07:50 PM
I want peace but I also want good discussions not bias opinions.


Fam the thread has been going on for over a week now and is on the 36 page for crying out loud so there has been good discussions so please dont "hate" on my thread all because I want call Kobe the greatest of all time.

Quiet storm
11-01-2006, 07:59 PM
No Peace as in Peace out lol, Get out the thread


Naw I like his input he has made a lot of good points and I respect his knowledge I just hope that he can respect mine as well and stop calling me a hater. :)

Kool-Aid Man
11-01-2006, 09:36 PM
You got me on Shaq point, but Kobe J > Wade's and Kobe's D > Wade's

so Kobe > Wade

Thats all I want you to recognize. Wade is a good player, but Kobe is the best in the NBA.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 02:15 AM
To get back to the whole point gaurd debate an interesting stat that the announcers said last night is that last year 7 guys on the Suns had their career highs in ppg. Now I know some of yall choose to ignore stats but I dont think its a coincidence that cats are becoming better scorers playing with Nash. Just thought Id share that tid bit. :)


P.S. Lakers win again.....hmmmmmm.....Golden State still gonna make the playoffs Eternal? :)

Danielle
11-02-2006, 10:44 AM
The Pistons lost last night by 8 points, I bet they are regretting letting Ben Wallace go now, and then they kick Rashed out early in the game, but they hung in there though.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 10:46 AM
The Pistons lost last night by 8 points, I bet they are regretting letting Ben Wallace go now, and then they kick Rashed out early in the game, but they hung in there though.


Wallace left they didnt let him go.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 10:51 AM
Rudy Gay scored 21 points had 8 rebounds and 4 block shots in his first game in the NBA. I keep telling you cats he is something special he is gonna be rookie of the year. :). I have been following him since high school.

dogfight!
11-02-2006, 10:55 AM
Rudy Gay scored 21 points had 8 rebounds and 4 block shots in his first game in the NBA. I keep telling you cats he is something special he is gonna be rookie of the year. :). I have been following him since high school.
Yeah but dude's problem is inconsistency. I honestly compare him to Stromile Swift. Crazy potential but sometimes checks out of games. If he can remain focused, you're right he'll be a force.

Danielle
11-02-2006, 10:59 AM
Wallace left they didnt let him go.


he left because they weren't willing to pay him as much as he wanted them to when they renewed his contract, so he bounced, but he would have stayed if they had paid him what he wanted.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:00 AM
he left because they weren't willing to pay him as much as he wanted them to when they renewed his contract, so he bounced, but he would have stayed if they had paid him what he wanted.


Thats what they all say......

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 11:00 AM
Well I would argue that Kidd on the Suns could not have beat the Lakers or the Clippers. I agree Jefferson and Marion are even but what about the Nets best player Vince Carter? Did the suns have a non injured player up to par with him? Also what Suns big man is as talented as Krstic?

I wouldn't agree with that arguement of course. Kidd isn't the defensive liability that Nash happens to be, in fact he would have been far more disruptive the offenses of the Lakers & Clippers. One could argue that the versatility of Boris Diaw makes him just as valuable to the Suns as Carter is to the Nets. Notice I didn't say that Diaw was a better scorer or comparable scorer...I didn't say that he was as athletic or any of that. Still Diaw brings to the table the ability to play 5 positions on both ends of the floor. In fact there are nights that he plays a prominent role as Nash's backup point guard.

Kidd has 3 players who are higher profile athletes than the Suns cast. But Nash has more playmakers and more scorers.

I'm not taking anything away from Nash at all, I'm just contending that Kidd shouldn't be slept on...by the way he had a triple double last night as he led his team to victory...meanwhile Nash's team squandered a 19 point lead against a team that was w/o Kobe Bryant. Oh and that reminds me, Lamar is playing like a very relevent beast!

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 11:02 AM
Vince and Barbosa?

Vince and Diaw

Barbosa comes off the bench with some nasty offense. I bet Vince couldn't stop him.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 11:03 AM
he left because they weren't willing to pay him as much as he wanted them to when they renewed his contract, so he bounced, but he would have stayed if they had paid him what he wanted.

He Really left because Flip was a bad coach and didnt teach defense and the Pistons became lazy last year. They Lost their Hustle. Ben woulda stayed if Larry Brown was still there.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:06 AM
by the way he had a triple double last night as he led his team to victory...meanwhile Nash's team squandered a 19 point lead against a team that was w/o Kobe Bryant. Oh and that reminds me, Lamar is playing like a very relevent beast!


Is there a reason why you didnt mention the 20 point 11 assist game Nash had last night as he lead his team to victory? :)

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 11:07 AM
Ummm I only brought up the stats cause cats were ignoring it but I never said it was ALL about the stats. I brought up other points such as him being named the MVP for the pass 2 years and also the fact that since he joined the Suns they have been a winning team and last year made it to the conference finals without one of their top 2 players. If we are discussing point gaurds dont you think its essential to see if they can distribute the ball? If so then how many assist they average is important agreed?



I disagree I think when looking at point gaurds we can learn a great deal by checking out their stats. If a point gaurd is averaging 3 assist per game and averaging 4 turnovers a game you mean to tell me that doesnt tell us anything? The things that "cant be measured" is relative(meaning its open to ones opinion) but stats are not.



This is a mute point Chris cause once again we are talking about NOW we are not talking about the past. Its funny how yall cats only try to point to Kidd's glory days how about we focus on 04-06......k?




Who is assuming that he is still in my top 10.



I watched the games and I saw Nash leading his team to the conference finals while Kidd had gone fishing.

I wasn't ignoring the stats, but they aren't a true measure of a player. Players bring to the table what they need to in the systems where they play. If you look at Marbury's stats over the past years he used to look like one of the best PG's in the L, but the win/loss column and chemistry he's brought to his teams don't match his stats.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:09 AM
I wasn't ignoring the stats, but they aren't a true measure of a player. Players bring to the table what they need to in the systems where they play. If you look at Marbury's stats over the past years he used to look like one of the best PG's in the L, but the win/loss column and chemistry he's brought to his teams don't match his stats.


I agree cause a guys personal stats should be factored in with how well his team does which is why I still like Nash as the best point gaurd. The team has improved since he arrived and last year 7 of his teammates had career highs in ppg.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 11:10 AM
Is there a reason why you didnt mention the 20 point 11 assist game Nash had last night as he lead his team to victory? :)

He couldnt do that against the Lakers :D ! Plus, How bout those Cavs!

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 11:11 AM
Is there a reason why you didnt mention the 20 point 11 assist game Nash had last night as he lead his team to victory? :)

No reason, he's one of the top 3 1's in the L.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:14 AM
He couldnt do that against the Lakers :D ! Plus, How bout those Cavs!


True he only had 15 points and 13 assist against the Lakers what a terrible game from him. :rolleyes:

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 11:32 AM
True he only had 15 points and 13 assist against the Lakers what a terrible game from him. :rolleyes:

Yes what a horrible day for the league MVP! only 15 points and a loss. How inconsistent. Kobe can score 15 and the lakers loose and they say he had a bad game.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:34 AM
Yes what a horrible day for the league MVP! only 15 points and a loss. How inconsistent. Kobe can score 15 and the lakers loose and they say he had a bad game.


uhhhh Nash is not suppose to be a big time scorer. So 15 points is not a dissapointing game for him. If he only ended up with like 3 assist then that would be a bad game for Nash.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 11:37 AM
uhhhh Nash is not suppose to be a big time scorer. So 15 points is not a dissapointing game for him. If he only ended up with like 3 assist then that would be a bad game for Nash.

the way you talk Kobes not supposed to be a big time scorer either

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:38 AM
the way you talk Kobes not supposed to be a big time scorer either


Oh really copy and paste me saying that? __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 11:41 AM
Oh really copy and paste me saying that? __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________

the way you talk< ------- implying your a kobe hater

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:46 AM
the way you talk< ------- implying your a kobe hater


Oh so you are also on that "QS is hating Kobe" tip....perhaps you should review this post that you might have missed.



First of all fam its really not that serious this is suppose to be a light hearted discussion for basketball lovers so forgive me if I assume that it seems like your getting offended with me disagreeing with you. Most of the time I am being sarcastic with cats such as CHRISTion cause thats my boy and we always debate bball and we actually agree on more things than we disagree on. I do not hate on Kobe Bryant how many times do I have to say on this thread that he is one of the top 3 players in the league now does that sound like a statement from somebody that hates on dude? It seems like based on the fact I am not calling him Jordan Jr or saying he is the best in the game then cats think I hate on him. Ok let me give you some positives about Kobe some of which I have already said in this thread so that you and other cats dont think I hate on him. In my opinion Kobe is the best one on one player in the game and if there are 10 seconds left on the clock I want the ball in his hand. In addition Kobe is a great man to man defender which I dont think he gets enough credit for he can lock down on a player and keep him in check similar to how he did Iverson a few years back in the finals. He is a great scorer the dude can score from anywhere on the court and he is a threat whenever he has the ball in his hand. I could go on on on listing things I like about Kobe so hopefully you see that I do not hate on the guy. Also this time last year if you were around here I was debating cats telling them Kobe was the best in the league so just cause my position has changed does not mean that I hate on Kobe. I am trying to be as unbias as I can I do not have a personal agenda to hate on Kobe so please dont assume that. I feel that Kobe needs to work on some areas as a player in order for him to take his team to the next level as well as be the best in the game and that is all I am trying to get across in all my posts. Now when your ready to drop your whole "he is hating on Kobe" mindset hopefully you can deal with ALL of what I have been saying in all my posts.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Oh so you are also on that "QS is hating Kobe" tip....perhaps you should review this post that you might have missed.

i didnt read that long post, it was too long for this thread:cool:

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 11:53 AM
Sorry to interrupt but Rudy Gay is a beast!

21 pts
8 rebounds
4 blks

Another hometown star in the making.
I can't wait for Josh Boone to recover from surgery. I got him playing big minutes by the end of the season and taking Jason Collins starting spot by next year.
I'm looking for Juan Dixon to get traded to a contender by February. Man I wish his brother Phil would have tried to go to the league.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:56 AM
i didnt read that long post, it was too long for this thread:cool:


Well if your to lazy to read then please kill the noise of calling QS a Kobe hater since that post shows otherwise. :rolleyes:

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 11:57 AM
Sorry to interrupt but Rudy Gay is a beast!

21 pts
8 rebounds
4 blks

Another hometown star in the making.
I can't wait for Josh Boone to recover from surgery. I got him playing big minutes by the end of the season and taking Jason Collins starting spot by next year.
I'm looking for Juan Dixon to get traded to a contender by February. Man I wish his brother Phil would have tried to go to the league.



Rudy Gay scored 21 points had 8 rebounds and 4 block shots in his first game in the NBA. I keep telling you cats he is something special he is gonna be rookie of the year. :). I have been following him since high school.


I'm already one step ahead of you fam.

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 11:59 AM
I'm already one step ahead of you fam.

Ok, I still wanted to show my man some love.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 12:10 PM
Well if your to lazy to read then please kill the noise of calling QS a Kobe hater since that post shows otherwise. :rolleyes:

It seems to be a popular idea to diss uninformed so i continue with the pattern LOLOL, it was joke QS, adjust your wedgey lol :p

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 12:13 PM
It seems to be a popular idea to diss uninformed so i continue with the pattern LOLOL, it was joke QS, adjust your wedgey lol :p


I know u joking but you still lazy if you dont want to read my long post. It was probably the best post in this thread so far. ;)

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 12:20 PM
I know u joking but you still lazy if you dont want to read my long post. It was probably the best post in this thread so far. ;)

i disagree. CHRISTion has more facts, you have more opinion

Danielle
11-02-2006, 12:22 PM
entertaining thread ***eating popcorn****

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 12:24 PM
i disagree. CHRISTion has more facts, you have more opinion


Thats funny since a lot of what he said was based on "observation"




NOW, for someone that's NEVER played the PG position-I could see how a person can just compare stats, but the pg position is similar to the QB position, it's really the hardest position to play and stats don't tell the whole story (which is why some will argue that Manning is the best QB based on stats, but others will say it's Brady based on things that can't be measured by stats).

A lot of what he says points to things that are "not measured by stats" so his "facts" that he has been bringing has been more opinion based. However at times he has made some good points based on facts.
I have always been the main dude who consistently wanted to look at the stats/facts. By the way how can you disagree with something you wont bother to read? My post actually praised Kobe. :confused:

t-roberts
11-02-2006, 12:26 PM
Why is no on talking about Lebron's improved D and his post up game?:)

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 12:31 PM
Why is no on talking about Lebron's improved D and his post up game?:)


Probably because cats are so in love with Kobe they have a man crush on him that they cant praise anybody else. But yes Lebron is a beast he is one of the top 3 players in the league and if I was starting a team I would choose him on Mr 24.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 12:33 PM
Probably because cats are so in love with Kobe they have a man crush on him that they cant praise anybody else. But yes Lebron is a beast he is one of the top 3 players in the league and if I was starting a team I would choose him on Mr 24.

well in my fantasy league I picked lebron over Kobe because Kobe isnt going to have to carry his team like lebron is.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 12:35 PM
well in my fantasy league I picked lebron over Kobe because Kobe isnt going to have to carry his team like lebron is.


I agree cause Lamar seems to be doing a good job carrying the team in Kobe's absence. :)

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 12:36 PM
Thats funny since a lot of what he said was based on "observation"



A lot of what he says points to things that are "not measured by stats" so his "facts" that he has been bringing has been more opinion based. However at times he has made some good points based on facts.
I have always been the main dude who consistently wanted to look at the stats/facts. By the way how can you disagree with something you wont bother to read? My post actually praised Kobe. :confused:

You're starting to sound a bit prideful beloved. Let's just say you and Chris have made some interesting points.

Now back to discussing Basketball. The Cavs looked really good.

Dwight Howard seems to be on the brink of inheriting the most dominant title. He destroyed Ben and all the Bulls bigs. This kid should be an allstar this year. G-Hill showed up and looked really good. That's 1 game down and 81 more regular season games to go. I think he's going to play at least 79.

The Knicks are playing with purpose and joy, they blew a big lead but they still hung on the win. The most significant observation in the game was the renewed play of Q Richardson.

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 12:40 PM
I agree cause Lamar seems to be doing a good job carrying the team in Kobe's absence. :)

Lamar has looked almost Pippenesque. I'm loving the aggressiveness of Bynum, kiss the starting spot good bye Kwame. Maurice Evans was a timely acquistion for them.

Frontrunners in the Jalen Rose sweepstakes Phoenix & Miami. There's more burn for him in Miami and they've offered him the opportunity to play the 1. Jalen has always seen himself as a point guard.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 12:41 PM
I agree cause Lamar seems to be doing a good job carrying the team in Kobe's absence. :)

Check out my roster
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g136/stillchadic/fantasy.jpg

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 12:43 PM
You're starting to sound a bit prideful beloved. Let's just say you and Chris have made some interesting points.

Actually its not pride at all I was just taking some shots at Chris cause thats my fam he knows I am just messing with him or am I?:). However I do feel that consistently I have been trying to examine the stats in this thread when others have been trying to dismiss them or undermine them. Chris has made some good points especially when he brought up the fact that Kidd made 1st team all defensve last year I quietly ignored that. :). I give credit where credit is due but if all cats are gonna say is "QS is a Kobe hater" then its hard for me to recongnise any credible points they might have to add.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 12:56 PM
Dwight Howard seems to be on the brink of inheriting the most dominant title. He destroyed Ben and all the Bulls bigs. This kid should be an allstar this year. G-Hill showed up and looked really good. That's 1 game down and 81 more regular season games to go. I think he's going to play at least 79.

The Knicks are playing with purpose and joy, they blew a big lead but they still hung on the win. The most significant observation in the game was the renewed play of Q Richardson.


I might have to rethink who I believe is going to be in the playoffs cause the Magic looked good tonight and they are still playing without their top draft pick. If they can keep everybody off the injured list (Grant Hill) and Howard continues to play dominant they can be very scary. I'm still not sold on the Knicks making the playoffs at best they will be a 30 win team.

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 01:39 PM
Actually its not pride at all I was just taking some shots at Chris cause thats my fam he knows I am just messing with him or am I?:). However I do feel that consistently I have been trying to examine the stats in this thread when others have been trying to dismiss them or undermine them. Chris has made some good points especially when he brought up the fact that Kidd made 1st team all defensve last year I quietly ignored that. :). I give credit where credit is due but if all cats are gonna say is "QS is a Kobe hater" then its hard for me to recongnise any credible points they might have to add.

Uh right...there's a really cool article about Rudy Gay in the new Slam magazine. If you haven't gotten it, I definitely recommend you check it out.

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 01:41 PM
I'm still not sold on the Knicks making the playoffs at best they will be a 30 win team.

We shall see.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 01:41 PM
Uh right...there's a really cool article about Rudy Gay in the new Slam magazine. If you haven't gotten it, I definitely recommend you check it out.


aight im peep it if I get a chance. One of my former youth played ball with him in high school and is now playing at Holy Cross.

Aquila
11-02-2006, 02:52 PM
"No Peace as in Peace out lol, Get out the thread"

Conviction unless you a moderator you cant' tell me to get out the thread.

But I'm out anyway if I caused any trouble forgive me.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 02:57 PM
"No Peace as in Peace out lol, Get out the thread"

Conviction unless you a moderator you cant' tell me to get out the thread.

But I'm out anyway if I caused any trouble forgive me.

lol, we playin homes. You can stay.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 03:00 PM
lol, we playin homes. You can stay.


dang man look at u running people away from the thread.:rolleyes:

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 03:50 PM
dang man look at u running people away from the thread.:rolleyes:

I know i bring conviction, people either run from it or run to it

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 03:51 PM
I know i bring conviction, people either run from it or run to it


Actually in this thread you have brought wack arguments.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 03:58 PM
Actually in this thread you have brought wack arguments.

lol, its took long of a thread to make any real valid points. Plus i don't have to prove my superiority in basketball knowledge.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 04:09 PM
lol, its took long of a thread to make any real valid points. Plus i don't have to prove my superiority in basketball knowledge.


You cant prove what you dont have. :rolleyes:. You best stick to coaching little league basketball like CHRISTion.

Redeemed
11-02-2006, 04:10 PM
With the Hawks coming to town on Friday, look for the Knicks to go 2-0.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 04:11 PM
With the Hawks coming to town on Friday, look for the Knicks to go 2-0.

2 down 28 more victories to go.

Danielle
11-02-2006, 04:14 PM
****eating popcorn, sigh**** men:(

3SpiritsEM
11-02-2006, 04:28 PM
lol, its took long of a thread to make any real valid points. Plus i don't have to prove my superiority in basketball knowledge.



You cant prove what you dont have. :rolleyes:. You best stick to coaching little league basketball like CHRISTion.

Boys, boys please, there’s only one way to settle this argument

Conviction Music vs. Quiet Storm in a game of 21 [best two out three] for HCR B-Ball Player of the Forum
My bling is on CM, Less get it OOOONNNNNN

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 04:35 PM
Boys, boys please, there’s only one way to settle this argument

Conviction Music vs. Quiet Storm in a game of 21 [best two out three] for HCR B-Ball Player of the Forum
My bling is on CM, Less get it OOOONNNNNN

Word son, you'll get crossed. I'll let you pick how i play you, d-wade or kobe. Then if you dont want to hold me, then i'll play like Ray Allen.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 04:41 PM
Boys, boys please, there’s only one way to settle this argument

Conviction Music vs. Quiet Storm in a game of 21 [best two out three] for HCR B-Ball Player of the Forum
My bling is on CM, Less get it OOOONNNNNN


You cant be serious now does this look like a dude who can beat me in basketball? http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/ministerqs/CM.jpg Hahah I dont think so I can tell by how he looks that he aint seeing me on the court. He probably a better surfer than me or something like that.

Quiet storm
11-02-2006, 04:44 PM
Word son, you'll get crossed. I'll let you pick how i play you, d-wade or kobe. Then if you dont want to hold me, then i'll play like Ray Allen.


I could beat you if I was in a wheel chair blindfolded with both hands tied behind my back.

Conviction Music
11-02-2006, 04:49 PM
I could beat you if I was in a wheel chair blindfolded with both hands tied behind my back.

Thats Remedial. Nobody who really hoops would say that. This guy is a beast

l
l
l
l
l


http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g136/stillchadic/a1d4re2.jpg

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 12:21 PM
Lets see how the "greatest" player in the game is doing so far this year.

PPG 21.2 RPG 4.00 APG 5.0 turnovers 4.67 . :D


That assist to turnover ratio is mighty impressive. :D



just playing folks I know you gonna cry about him being hurt :p

Redeemed
11-15-2006, 12:27 PM
Lets see how the "greatest" player in the game is doing so far this year.

PPG 21.2 RPG 4.00 APG 5.0 turnovers 4.67 . :D


That assist to turnover ratio is mighty impressive. :D



just playing folks I know you gonna cry about him being hurt :p

No tears...he is hurt. He's finger rolling and tossing up floaters on moves that he would otherwise dunk. I really hope he shuts it down for a while and then make another go at it after Allstar break.

Oh and the officiating is at an alltime low this year. I think with the pressure of player and coach posts removed, officials can be a bit more cavalier in their calls. The poor officiating is really bringing the game down IMHO.

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 12:34 PM
No tears...he is hurt. He's finger rolling and tossing up floaters on moves that he would otherwise dunk. I really hope he shuts it down for a while and then make another go at it after Allstar break.

Oh and the officiating is at an alltime low this year. I think with the pressure of player and coach posts removed, officials can be a bit more cavalier in their calls. The poor officiating is really bringing the game down IMHO.

I'm really not feeling the "if you look at me wrong" I am gonna give you a T approach that the NBA refs are doing this year. I understand the need for zero tolerance but some of the T's this year have been rediculous. One guy simply slammed the basketball down hard cause he got beat off the dribble by the guy he was gaurding and he got a T for that. :eek:

eternal
11-15-2006, 12:49 PM
The Warriors are OWNING the NBA. Sorry Pistons, I know that 32 point loss really hurt :D

dogfight!
11-15-2006, 12:50 PM
LOL @ eternal's avatar.

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 12:50 PM
The Warriors are OWNING the NBA. Sorry Pistons, I know that 32 point loss really hurt :D


The only thing the Warriors might own is the top lottery spot.

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 01:02 PM
Who do yall feel is the best NBA center as or right now......Yao or Shaq? State your reasons why.

Redeemed
11-15-2006, 01:07 PM
The Warriors are OWNING the NBA. Sorry Pistons, I know that 32 point loss really hurt :D

Piston fan here...hey good for the Warriors. Other than that beating they put on the Lakers, the Pistons played like garbage on that road trip. Still let's see what the Warriors look like by Feb. Will they be in the playoff race or will they be looking to blow the team up before the end of the trade deadline?

Redeemed
11-15-2006, 01:10 PM
Who do yall feel is the best NBA center as or right now......Yao or Shaq? State your reasons why.

Its really too early to make that call, but right now Yao has been playing more efficiently on both ends of the floor, he's been more durable, and his stamina is currently better than Shaq's (he ran Shaq to death in that last Rockets/Heat game).

dogfight!
11-15-2006, 01:12 PM
Who do yall feel is the best NBA center as or right now......Yao or Shaq? State your reasons why.

RIGHT NOW? Are you seriously asking that question?

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 01:14 PM
Its really too early to make that call, but right now Yao has been playing more efficiently on both ends of the floor, he's been more durable, and his stamina is currently better than Shaq's (he ran Shaq to death in that last Rockets/Heat game).

Yao is really impressing me this season he is starting to become the player I knew he could become. I know its mad early in the season but in my opinion he is now the most dominant center in the game. Tracy is doing nothing this season (I dont even think he is averaging at least 20 and he is shooting less than 40% from the field) and Yao is carrying the team and demanding cats throw him the ball.

Redeemed
11-15-2006, 01:33 PM
Tracy is doing nothing this season (I dont even think he is averaging at least 20 and he is shooting less than 40% from the field)

Its probably a good thing that Tracy isn't tearing up the league with prolific scoring nights. In fact the supression of his game may be by design. Yao as the dominant scorer on the team works will for how Van Gundy wants his offensive system run. That being said Tracy will very likely start scoring more as the season wears on.

I haven't heard anything about Bonzi. Is he hurt?

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 01:34 PM
I haven't heard anything about Bonzi. Is he hurt?

good question I havent been following the Rockets to closely to know....dogfight?

dogfight!
11-15-2006, 01:39 PM
good question I havent been following the Rockets to closely to know....dogfight?

Mostly DNP-CDs. He was hurt but he says he's fine now. Van Gundy is a student of Larry Brown's school. Stupid egomaniac. Our best shooter, Novak, doesnt get into games and neither does Bonzi. Its only a matter of time before dude starts complaining

::sigh::

TMacs shot has been off. Totally off. Part the new ball, part he's trying to be too careful with his back. He hardly ever takes the ball to the hole anymore and settles for being a playmaker (a la Kobe this year).

eternal
11-15-2006, 01:44 PM
Houston certainly looks like a lock this year. I was trying to figure out who the Warriors would have to beat out to make it.

San Anotnio
Dallas
PHX
Houston
Clippers
Warriors
Sacramento
Lakers

That is a lot of good teams not making it ( Utah, N.O, Denver, Minnesota, Memphis)

Yikes. Any of those teams would make it in the East. I am seriously praying for this 12 year playoff drought to end.

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 01:48 PM
Houston certainly looks like a lock this year. I was trying to figure out who the Warriors would have to beat out to make it.

San Anotnio
Dallas
PHX
Houston
Clippers
Warriors
Sacramento
Lakers

That is a lot of good teams not making it ( Utah, N.O, Denver, Minnesota, Memphis)

Yikes. Any of those teams would make it in the East. I am seriously praying for this 12 year playoff drought to end.

Utah is looking nice this year fam everybody is healthy now I have them as a lock to make the playoffs.

eternal
11-15-2006, 01:50 PM
Utah is looking nice this year fam everybody is healthy now I have them as a lock to make the playoffs.

My only thing with them is that I am not sure if they can maintain over the course of the season. If they can, then the two LA teams are the ones I think will fall out. I am pretty confident that we will not have that lotto spot you've signed us up for.

BTW...nice sig. Homey looks just like the type of dude my girl goes for...

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 01:54 PM
BTW...nice sig. Homey looks just like the type of dude my girl goes for...

Word...she must be into goofy looking white dudes. I'm feeling your avator though that pic might make my girl stumble.

dogfight!
11-15-2006, 01:55 PM
wheres that "homo" pic when you need it?



LOL

Redeemed
11-15-2006, 02:44 PM
Houston certainly looks like a lock this year. I was trying to figure out who the Warriors would have to beat out to make it.

San Anotnio
Dallas
PHX
Houston
Clippers
Warriors
Sacramento
Lakers

That is a lot of good teams not making it ( Utah, N.O, Denver, Minnesota, Memphis)

Yikes. Any of those teams would make it in the East. I am seriously praying for this 12 year playoff drought to end.


Utah is 7-1 and leading their division. They have one of the better frontcourts in the NBA and one of the best systems in the NBA (Sloan is a genius). Only injuries will keep them out of the playoffs. Denver will make it. They're packed with big athletic bodies, a superstar in Carmelo, and better outside shooting this year.

New Orleans is a dark horse team. They can either be really really good or quite disappointing.

The window of opportunity is cover with concrete for Minnesota. Free Garnett for lottery land. Randy Foye is the man (random thought).

The Warriors may make the playoffs...next year. It really doesn't look good for them.

3SpiritsEM
11-15-2006, 03:39 PM
Yo, QS, dose Eddy Jordon know what the heck he's doing. He done cause my man Haywood to put a beat down on Thomas.:D

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 03:45 PM
Yo, QS, dose Eddy Jordon know what the heck he's doing. He done cause my man Haywood to put a beat down on Thomas.:D

According to Thomas he only got sucker punched by Haywood after a dude on the team was holding him back. Thomas is actually playing good as a starter it looks like Eddie made the right decision.

Redeemed
11-15-2006, 03:54 PM
According to Thomas he only got sucker punched by Haywood after a dude on the team was holding him back. Thomas is actually playing good as a starter it looks like Eddie made the right decision.

Actually the story is Etan got a punch in, but Brendon body slammed him.

Haywood doesn't show up every night. He provides little rebounding and no toughness to the team. He should start, but he 1st needs to act like the lion from the Wizard of Oz and find his heart.

eternal
11-15-2006, 04:05 PM
Utah is 7-1 and leading their division. They have one of the better frontcourts in the NBA and one of the best systems in the NBA (Sloan is a genius). Only injuries will keep them out of the playoffs.

Which has historicaly been their problem with this group of guys. Boozer and Kerilenko are injury magnets. Their good play is to be expected, but I am not sure if they can make it the whole season.


Denver will make it. They're packed with big athletic bodies, a superstar in Carmelo, and better outside shooting this year.

Nah. I disagree with that one. Their team has a lot of pseudo stars, IMO. They will only make it if the other teams falter.


New Orleans is a dark horse team. They can either be really really good or quite disappointing.

Yeah, they are already dropping.


The Warriors may make the playoffs...next year. It really doesn't look good for them.

Nah! Keep an eye out for Monta Ellis and Andris Beindris. Ike Diogu too. We have a great current of young players. Now only if we can jettison Foyle, Dunleavy and Murphy...

Quiet storm
11-15-2006, 04:06 PM
Actually the story is Etan got a punch in, but Brendon body slammed him.




I have heard that account I was just giving the account that Thomas made.

3SpiritsEM
11-15-2006, 04:35 PM
According to Thomas he only got sucker punched by Haywood after a dude on the team was holding him back. Thomas is actually playing good as a starter it looks like Eddie made the right decision.

If you look at their numbers there almost the same, and if given the same amount of playing it would be. So way the change?

Haywood
2006-07 Statistics
PPG 4.5
RPG 3.50
APG 0.2
EFF + 5.50
Career PPG 6.9 RPG 5.5

Thomas
2006-07 Statistics
PPG 8.5
RPG 6.50
APG 0.7
EFF + 14.33