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ZestD
10-23-2006, 04:52 PM
I saw a few of the people on here are from the Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex area.

So I was down there this last summer and drove by(on a Sunday) TD Jake's church. Isn't called Potter's House or something? Anyway, the church is more like a sports stadium which is cool I guess. The sickening part is there were security booths and guards saying we had to have a parking permit to park there or in the overflow across the street. There is no other parking in the area...unless I wanted to walk like a mile from Dallas Baptist. So to attend this 'church,' you have to have an ID or pass? Wow.

LifeInReturn
10-23-2006, 04:58 PM
I used to attend that circus, and no you do not have to have a pass or permit to ATTEND.

ZestD
10-23-2006, 04:59 PM
To park though. And you know since you've been there that there is literally no where else to park. Kind of odd to me to say the least.

jnorman888
10-23-2006, 05:16 PM
How do you get a pass or permit?

ZestD
10-23-2006, 05:19 PM
No idea.

I was only visiting the area so I was going to go there but couldn't park.

I also saw TBN's high-security compound. That was a little off to me also.

jnorman888
10-23-2006, 05:21 PM
No idea.

I was only visiting the area so I was going to go there but couldn't park.

I also saw TBN's high-security compound. That was a little off to me also.


High security? What's up with that?


You know I was told once that some pastors or bishops got security gaurds in the Churches so that you can't get near them to speak to them. Is that true? Or is that just a rumor?

simplyG
10-23-2006, 05:25 PM
That was the case the one and only time I attended a service at a "mega" church. It was a trip: wireless communication on the yshers, complete with picture ID; they sat you by sections--yousat where they wanted you to sit; parking was in sectors; tv/monitors everywhere; etc. I'm just not a fan of really huge churches.

ZestD
10-23-2006, 05:28 PM
High security? What's up with that?


You know I was told once that some pastors or bishops got security gaurds in the Churches so that you can't get near them to speak to them. Is that true? Or is that just a rumor?
As far as the TBN compound, most tv stations will have some security(i.e. fence, gate, etc) but they have big stone walls, lots of security personnel and this huge metal gate, like 20-30 feet high. One building looks like the White House...maybe that's where Pat Robertson sleeps. Lol. I don't know. Just really high-security for people that are supposed to be ministers and such. Lots of money obviously running through there though!

I've heard the same about security guards with some big pastors and such. I haven't experienced firsthand so I can't call it.

Tha God In Me
10-23-2006, 05:33 PM
I used to attend that circus...

Why do you call it that? Just curious, I've never been there.

ZestD
10-23-2006, 05:36 PM
Why do you call it that? Just curious, I've never been there.

Maybe I'm going too far but it is prob like a circus in that:

A mass of humanity.
Has lots of production value.
Consider attendance=success.
Some people go just to be seen.
There are hairy elephants who fear change at both places.
Money.

LifeInReturn
10-23-2006, 05:39 PM
Circus:

1. a large public entertainment, typically presented in one or more very large tents or in an outdoor or indoor arena, featuring exhibitions of pageantry, feats of skill and daring, performing animals, etc., interspersed throughout with the slapstick antics of clowns. Compare big top.
2. a troupe of performers, esp. a traveling troupe, that presents such entertainments, together with officials, other employees, and the company's performing animals, traveling wagons, tents, cages, and equipment.
3. a circular arena surrounded by tiers of seats, in which public entertainments are held; arena.

Tha God In Me
10-23-2006, 05:49 PM
^^ Thats comedy. I guess I wanted to know of any personal experiences.

ZestD
10-23-2006, 05:49 PM
Good post Life.

LifeInReturn
10-23-2006, 05:51 PM
^^ Thats comedy. I guess I wanted to know of any personal experiences.

It's true... and my personal experience was that it was a health and wealth and prosperity driven / emotionalism packed / lets run around and scream at the top of our lungs filled / modalistic circus mess.

:)

ZestD
10-23-2006, 05:53 PM
It's true... and my personal experience was that it was a health and wealth and prosperity driven / emotionalism packed / lets run around and scream at the top of our lungs filled / modalistic circus mess.

:)

Hehehe, indeed.

Tha God In Me
10-23-2006, 05:53 PM
Aaaah, gotchu. ;)

ministerbj
10-24-2006, 05:34 AM
It's true... and my personal experience was that it was a health and wealth and prosperity driven / emotionalism packed / lets run around and scream at the top of our lungs filled / modalistic circus mess.

:)

why did you really leave?

lisajames96
10-24-2006, 10:13 AM
High security? What's up with that?


You know I was told once that some pastors or bishops got security gaurds in the Churches so that you can't get near them to speak to them. Is that true? Or is that just a rumor?

Sometimes pastors get death threats and use undercover security to protect them. Even in a non mega church. It doesn't stop you from getting near them, just so you can't beat them up or something...lol. I have an example but cant use it out of confidence.

CHRISTion
10-24-2006, 10:22 AM
The "security guard" phenomena started to catch on a few years ago... of course people love to worship people they see on tv and most tv pastors started to have them because people kept trying to gather round them and get at them--

HOWEVER-I HAVE been to a church where the pastor did actually NEED security because the people in the church were outraged that a previous pastor got let go in favor of him (no fault of his own) & he started to change some stuff and they wanted his HEAD :eek: -real talk

I dunno...I've never been to the Potter's House-but from what I've HEARD lifey's description is pretty "on point"

*praying*

LifeInReturn
10-24-2006, 10:35 AM
why did you really leave?

Sarcasm ?

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 11:30 AM
Sometimes pastors get death threats and use undercover security to protect them. Even in a non mega church. It doesn't stop you from getting near them, just so you can't beat them up or something...lol. I have an example but cant use it out of confidence.


That's messed up! You didn't see Paul with security gaurds! He took it like a man!

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 11:31 AM
The "security guard" phenomena started to catch on a few years ago... of course people love to worship people they see on tv and most tv pastors started to have them because people kept trying to gather round them and get at them--

HOWEVER-I HAVE been to a church where the pastor did actually NEED security because the people in the church were outraged that a previous pastor got let go in favor of him (no fault of his own) & he started to change some stuff and they wanted his HEAD :eek: -real talk

I dunno...I've never been to the Potter's House-but from what I've HEARD lifey's description is pretty "on point"

*praying*


He should of taken it like a man

dogfight!
10-24-2006, 11:49 AM
LOL

This is thready is comedy! Y'alls are a trip.




































Not really.

4Sight Sounds
10-24-2006, 11:51 AM
why did you really leave?

Life knows the voice of The Shepherd.

Jhn 10:1-5 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. "But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. "A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

lisajames96
10-24-2006, 11:51 AM
That's messed up! You didn't see Paul with security gaurds! He took it like a man!

true:D ,
but he did use his Roman citizenship to pull rank on a couple of guards when they were going to beat him...but that's OT...lol

Devin
10-24-2006, 11:55 AM
That's messed up! You didn't see Paul with security gaurds! He took it like a man!


yeah...but paul said we all have our individual gifts:D

Enlighten
10-24-2006, 12:00 PM
Well security is fine with me since, my church has had people steal our equipment becuase we werent secure. Now Personal security I dont cause it's only 2 to 3 people watching my pastor and her family not a whole army surrounding her.

I've been to the Potter's House plenty of time and never needed a parking pass. I've been there during office hours no problem, only needed a badge to meet with some pass the admin area. I dont know why you needed a pass.

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 12:12 PM
Why don't ya'll ask John Hagee about security?

Devin
10-24-2006, 12:19 PM
im not against security IF U NEED IT....if someone kept sending me death threats i'd be concerned....and yeah...some of guys arent looking at it from that angle

now if u just have security for no good reason then yeah....u off!!!!

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 01:01 PM
ATLANTA (AP) A woman opened fire at an Atlanta church before services yesterday morning, killing her mother and the minister before committing suicide. http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20031006-122416-7170r.htm

Not enough??

The gunman, identified Thursday as Larry Gene Ashbrook of Fort Worth, shouted obscenities as he emptied three ammunition clips from a nine-millimeter, semi-automatic handgun at the gathered congregation.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec99/shooting_9-16.html

More!!!!

A Wisconsin church and community are asking "Why?" after a man opened fire on a church service and killed seven people before fatally shooting himself. Police say there is nothing out of the ordinary to explain why 44-year-old Terry Ratzmann opened fire 20 minutes after the Living Church of God service began at at a Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield. The dead include the minister and his 16-year-old son. "We believe that the motive has something to do with the church and the church services, more so than any other possible motive," Brookfield police Capt. Phil Horter said. "We are looking at the church totality."
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/013294.html

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 01:49 PM
ATLANTA (AP) A woman opened fire at an Atlanta church before services yesterday morning, killing her mother and the minister before committing suicide. http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20031006-122416-7170r.htm

Not enough??

The gunman, identified Thursday as Larry Gene Ashbrook of Fort Worth, shouted obscenities as he emptied three ammunition clips from a nine-millimeter, semi-automatic handgun at the gathered congregation.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec99/shooting_9-16.html

More!!!!

A Wisconsin church and community are asking "Why?" after a man opened fire on a church service and killed seven people before fatally shooting himself. Police say there is nothing out of the ordinary to explain why 44-year-old Terry Ratzmann opened fire 20 minutes after the Living Church of God service began at at a Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield. The dead include the minister and his 16-year-old son. "We believe that the motive has something to do with the church and the church services, more so than any other possible motive," Brookfield police Capt. Phil Horter said. "We are looking at the church totality."
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/013294.html



It comes with the call fam. A preacher shouldn't have body gaurds.

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 02:06 PM
It comes with the call fam. A preacher shouldn't have body gaurds.

Neither should the president. Think the apostles weren't protecting Jesus. I hate the security thing, but you can't say ohhh it's right or it's wrong. This is solely based on opinion homie. No one can say right or wrong, just say how you feel and that's that.

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 02:09 PM
Neither should the president. Think the apostles weren't protecting Jesus. I hate the security thing, but you can't say ohhh it's right or it's wrong. This is solely based on opinion homie. No one can say right or wrong, just say how you feel and that's that.


Does it sound right to you to have body gaurds while preaching the gospel? what about turning the other cheek and going the extra mile and all that stuff?

Devin
10-24-2006, 02:16 PM
Does it sound right to you to have body gaurds while preaching the gospel? what about turning the other cheek and going the extra mile and all that stuff?


well thats your opinion.....you havent been in that situation...so you cant speak on it...now if your life was threatend then it would be the wise thing to have some sort of security...especially if its something serious...

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 02:17 PM
Does it sound right to you to have body gaurds while preaching the gospel? what about turning the other cheek and going the extra mile and all that stuff?

Why does the president have bodyguards?? Why is he not required to turn the cheek and go the extra mile. Kirk Franklin has body guards. do you think someone protecting you is wrong??

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 02:18 PM
well thats your opinion.....you havent been in that situation...so you cant speak on it...now if your life was threatend then it would be the wise thing to have some sort of security...especially if its something serious...


If my life was threatend then I would trust in the sovereignty of God for I am immortal until God says it's time for me to go!

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 02:21 PM
If my life was threatend then I would trust in the sovereignty of God for I am immortal until God says it's time for me to go!

That's a great way of thinking, doesn't make it right though. Let's go to Sudan.

Devin
10-24-2006, 02:23 PM
If my life was threatend then I would trust in the sovereignty of God for I am immortal until God says it's time for me to go!


well thats cool...but that doesnt mean i dont have the right to use bodyguards if necessary....sure i can trust in God...that dont mean ima jump from a tall building thinking God is gonna save me....i gotta be wise too.....

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 02:26 PM
That's a great way of thinking, doesn't make it right though. Let's go to Sudan.

Lets GO!

You paying for the round trip?

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 02:28 PM
well thats cool...but that doesnt mean i dont have the right to use bodyguards if necessary....sure i can trust in God...that dont mean ima jump from a tall building thinking God is gonna save me....i gotta be wise too.....

Was steven the Levite wise? Was Paul Wise? what about the other Apostles?

Devin
10-24-2006, 02:29 PM
Was steven the Levite wise? Was Paul Wise? what about the other Apostles?


yes....but not every man is the same...you are trying to find a way to start an argument and i dont appreciate it...just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean theyre wrong........

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 02:42 PM
Lets GO!

You paying for the round trip?

Yup but you got to pay for security

jnorman888
10-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Yup but you got to pay for security



It's about 3 to 4 grand per person. And we don't need security. We will just Trust in the Providence of God.

We gotta get shots and we gotta carry lots of bottled water


If we die we die!!!

If we live we live!!!


It's God's call

simplyG
10-24-2006, 03:29 PM
Let's overlook the 23rd Psalm while we're at it...

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 03:33 PM
Let's overlook the 23rd Psalm while we're at it...
If your wife is preaching, or mom, and someone comes to smash her, you gonna let God handle it, or are you going to guard her body?

simplyG
10-24-2006, 03:38 PM
If your wife is preaching, or mom, and someone comes to smash her, you gonna let God handle it, or are you going to guard her body?


If I put trust in my eyes and walk by sight, not by faith, all the preparation in the world wouldn't prevents God's will being done. I would hate to think that Malcolm X, a committed muslim, would show more courage than any Christian.

As for your question: we walk in threats every day. I guard her in my presence, and God watches her in my absence. Beyond that, it's no mystery to me.

Enlighten
10-24-2006, 05:10 PM
Malcom Had Security and He carried a gun, I'm the only who remembers the By Any Means Necessary picture.

simplyG
10-24-2006, 05:24 PM
Malcom Had Security and He carried a gun, I'm the only who remembers the By Any Means Necessary picture.

He, not a guard team of twenty, was carrying the gun.
Like I said: protect as you can while at home, trust God when you're away from it.

It's contradictory to say trust in Jesus when you have 20 guards to protect you from your own congregation.

Note: Bonded trustees with guns, probably more of a necessity in the hood.

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 05:26 PM
He, not a guard team of twenty, was carrying the gun.
Like I said: protect as you can while at home, trust God when you're away from it.

It's contradictory to say trust in Jesus when you have 20 guards to protect you from your own congregation.

Note: Bonded trustees with guns, probably more of a necessity in the hood.

Good opinion, I just don't agree

Enlighten
10-24-2006, 06:08 PM
He, not a guard team of twenty, was carrying the gun.
Like I said: protect as you can while at home, trust God when you're away from it.

It's contradictory to say trust in Jesus when you have 20 guards to protect you from your own congregation.

Note: Bonded trustees with guns, probably more of a necessity in the hood.

What about the security though he still had it, the security of Bishop Jakes didnt carry guns to my knowledge. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it's not excess.

simplyG
10-24-2006, 06:17 PM
What about the security though he still had it, the security of Bishop Jakes didnt carry guns to my knowledge. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it's not excess.

By his own words, he sensed his time was winding down, and knowing this he went about his final days without conspicuous security. He knew that no amount of security can stop God's will.

Enlighten
10-24-2006, 06:20 PM
Okay but Still as I as been saying nothing with security.

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 06:25 PM
He, not a guard team of twenty, was carrying the gun.
Like I said: protect as you can while at home, trust God when you're away from it.

It's contradictory to say trust in Jesus when you have 20 guards to protect you from your own congregation.

Note: Bonded trustees with guns, probably more of a necessity in the hood.

So is going to the doctor!!:( Your faith in God has nothing to do with precautionary measures. I'm sure you lock your doors when you go to sleep.

simplyG
10-24-2006, 06:27 PM
So is going to the doctor!!:( Your faith in God has nothing to do with precautionary measures. I'm sure you lock your doors when you go to sleep.

That's an assumption. The 23rd Psalm is real.

Conviction Music
10-24-2006, 06:29 PM
Man this is foolish to think that some people shouldnt have security. People are crazy. Dont you know people will run up in the church and jack the offering plate? Dont you know that somebody will shoot somebody regardless if your in church just because they can? In Detroit they have security in churches all the time. People want to feel safe. There is a thing called common sense people. Bishop Butler needs security, he works for the NAACP. Would he not be trusting in God because he got gaurds thats strapped?

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Either way drop by my crib and you'll get a suprise!!! Believe what you want, trust God too! But don't be no fool. David & all of his boys was strapped! Paul wasn't no punk either, just cause you ain't read it in the bible that he stomped out someone, don't mean that it didn't happen. Remember Peter pulled out the sword in the garden, don't get it twisted ya'll.

simplyG
10-24-2006, 07:03 PM
Man this is foolish to think that some people shouldnt have security. People are crazy. Dont you know people will run up in the church and jack the offering plate? Dont you know that somebody will shoot somebody regardless if your in church just because they can? In Detroit they have security in churches all the time. People want to feel safe. There is a thing called common sense people. Bishop Butler needs security, he works for the NAACP. Would he not be trusting in God because he got gaurds thats strapped?


There are churches in Detroit--my former church being one-- without the garish ultraconspicuous security commonplace to some "megachurches." Stuff happens anyway; live like what is in you is stronger than what's in the world. Security is one thing; 30 grown men surrounding a minister from the pulpit to the lear jet is ridiculous.

ZestD
10-24-2006, 07:08 PM
Security is one thing; 30 grown men surrounding a minister from the pulpit to the lear jet in ridiculous.


Dopest post in this thread.

Conviction Music
10-24-2006, 07:34 PM
There are churches in Detroit--my former church being one-- without the garish ultraconspicuous security commonplace to some "megachurches." Stuff happens anyway; live like what is in you is stronger than what's in the world. Security is one thing; 30 grown men surrounding a minister from the pulpit to the lear jet in ridiculous.

I agree

Gloria
10-24-2006, 08:39 PM
ATLANTA (AP) A woman opened fire at an Atlanta church before services yesterday morning, killing her mother and the minister before committing suicide. http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20031006-122416-7170r.htm

Not enough??

The gunman, identified Thursday as Larry Gene Ashbrook of Fort Worth, shouted obscenities as he emptied three ammunition clips from a nine-millimeter, semi-automatic handgun at the gathered congregation.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/july-dec99/shooting_9-16.html

More!!!!

A Wisconsin church and community are asking "Why?" after a man opened fire on a church service and killed seven people before fatally shooting himself. Police say there is nothing out of the ordinary to explain why 44-year-old Terry Ratzmann opened fire 20 minutes after the Living Church of God service began at at a Sheraton Hotel in Brookfield. The dead include the minister and his 16-year-old son. "We believe that the motive has something to do with the church and the church services, more so than any other possible motive," Brookfield police Capt. Phil Horter said. "We are looking at the church totality."
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/013294.html

WHOA! :( point taken.

Gloria
10-24-2006, 08:42 PM
There are churches in Detroit--my former church being one-- without the garish ultraconspicuous security commonplace to some "megachurches." Stuff happens anyway; live like what is in you is stronger than what's in the world. Security is one thing; 30 grown men surrounding a minister from the pulpit to the lear jet is ridiculous.

I agree with this too...

dremarshall
10-24-2006, 09:22 PM
Bottom line cats got issues with "megachurches" so they feel that they can't vent on here about there biast opinions. Man if a cat want a leer jet and 30 security guards, as foolish as it may be, until you are added to the Trinity man it's all talk. People answer to God not you, or me. Hey this thread has absolutely no scripture to back it up either way, therefore becomes an opinionated discussion which is neither wrong nor right. Share your opinion, but don't go into the whole WOF thing and all that. No one has YET to mention the POPE!!!!

Conviction Music
10-24-2006, 09:25 PM
Bottom line cats got issues with "megachurches" so they feel that they can't vent on here about there biast opinions. Man if a cat want a leer jet and 30 security guards, as foolish as it may be, until you are added to the Trinity man it's all talk. People answer to God not you, or me. Hey this thread has absolutely no scripture to back it up either way, therefore becomes an opinionated discussion which is neither wrong nor right. Share your opinion, but don't go into the whole WOF thing and all that. No one has YET to mention the POPE!!!!

The pope got his own army son! Talk about a megachurch

Devin
10-25-2006, 01:18 AM
What about the security though he still had it, the security of Bishop Jakes didnt carry guns to my knowledge. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it's not excess.


oh yeah...i agree.....i mean...20 body guards?come on man!!!.....now a couple of dudes....not a problem......

ministerbj
10-25-2006, 07:37 AM
Sarcasm ?

no i'm for real..... why did you really leave?

LifeInReturn
10-25-2006, 07:42 AM
no i'm for real..... why did you really leave?

Um... I stated why in the post you quoted me on earlier.

ministerbj
10-25-2006, 07:48 AM
It comes with the call fam. A preacher shouldn't have body gaurds.

why shouldn't a preacher have body guards... everybody is not saved... some folk probably after Bishop Jakes because he was seen with the president.... never know man... better safe than sorry... he's not going to hell for it....so it's cool

Psalmist
10-25-2006, 07:57 AM
why shouldn't a preacher have body guards... everybody is not saved... some folk probably after Bishop Jakes because he was seen with the president.... never know man... better safe than sorry... he's not going to hell for it....so it's cool
I dig....Joel Osteen use to have no security guards and then some cat tried to murk him...I would've gotten security too!

dremarshall
10-25-2006, 08:07 AM
In 99 someone came up to the pulpit and emptied a gun on John Hagee. Thank God for His grace that the bruh was safe, but ummmmm you don't need the holy spirit to tell you get some security. Now what I don't like is that there is all this security for the pastor, but the people aren't safe. Two young dudes at my church got in a fight, and security hesitated intervening *sp* because he didn't want to get off his post. That's a big bag of bull! Security should keep places safe, and regardless of who you are be careful. I told big homie J Norman, lets go to sudan, he say if I die, I die. YOU WILL DIE seeing as they are martyring and doing what is also genocide to the christians over there. You have to be careful, and use wisdom. If you need security GET IT. If you doing it to look important *SMH*

simplyG
10-25-2006, 05:42 PM
Bottom line cats got issues with "megachurches" so they feel that they can't vent on here about there biast opinions. Man if a cat want a leer jet and 30 security guards, as foolish as it may be, until you are added to the Trinity man it's all talk. People answer to God not you, or me. Hey this thread has absolutely no scripture to back it up either way, therefore becomes an opinionated discussion which is neither wrong nor right. Share your opinion, but don't go into the whole WOF thing and all that. No one has YET to mention the POPE!!!!


My issue with this is none of these preachers are against tithing. People are tithing so that their tithes may be used for the Great Commision or saving souls or the things Jesus showed us to do. FLOSS is so beyond this it's pathetic.

simplyG
10-25-2006, 05:44 PM
I dig....Joel Osteen use to have no security guards and then some cat tried to murk him...I would've gotten security too!

Everybody wants heaven/without dying...

naijagirl
10-25-2006, 05:47 PM
Bottom line cats got issues with "megachurches" so they feel that they can't vent on here about there biast opinions. Man if a cat want a leer jet and 30 security guards, as foolish as it may be, until you are added to the Trinity man it's all talk. People answer to God not you, or me. Hey this thread has absolutely no scripture to back it up either way, therefore becomes an opinionated discussion which is neither wrong nor right. Share your opinion, but don't go into the whole WOF thing and all that. No one has YET to mention the POPE!!!!
I don't think people have issues with megachurches, because my senior pastor Tom Nelson has a megachurch, but he doesn't use security. *shrugs* Come on now...

ZestD
08-18-2007, 02:30 PM
Craziness.

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