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eve
10-18-2006, 08:52 AM
Hey, I was listening to yesterday's segment of Way of the Master Radio (http://www.wotmradio.com) and the interview Todd was doing with Voddie Baucham.

I HAD to email Todd to answer the "Black Church" questions he was asking because I didn't think anyone who called in did the issue any justice. I hope he reads and understands the email.

(I, by the way, admire his humility and admission that he was asking the questions because he simple doesn't know. It's good to see someone asking instead of assuming, though it was an eye-opener to me that even someone as intelligent as Todd is would be so influenced by the often asthmatic Black preachers on television, as if that represents the majority of the "Black Church." So I'm happy he asked and gave Voddie a chance to address those issues. It's also noteworthy that those in the numerical majority often make assumptions about minorities though they would think it was crazy for others to make generalizations about them).

If you got a chance to hear the broadcast, please give your thoughts!

StreetSermonz
10-18-2006, 09:04 AM
sounds like an interesting show, didn't have a chance to hear WOTM Radio yesterday cuz I was at school so I'll give it a listen now. Thanks for the post Eve.

jnorman888
10-18-2006, 10:18 AM
Sounds good

StreetSermonz
10-18-2006, 11:07 AM
I have to post on this, because that segment was great!! It was good to see this topic being brought up given the majority audience on WOTM Radio.

I had never heard of Voddie Baucham, but he made some great points:

"We are emotional people.... if the gospel does not impact us emotionally, then it could be that we are actually being disengenous before God."
"You cross the line into emotionalism when we become anti-intellectual, when the emotions themselves began to govern and begin to override what we are doing....trying to elicit certain emotional responses"

I would like to touch on these two quotes. I think that expressing your emotions is very important, especially when giving God Praise and in times of worship. Even when there is a good word going forth that moves you. BUT when a preacher merely preaches a word to stir up emotion, rather than share the gospel, and in-turn uses that emotion to manipulate, that is where the problem lies! Not in the style, but in the heart of the preacher and the Word that is presented.

It was interesting to see Todd's misconceptions of the so-called "Black church", and how he developed them by watching preachers on TV!!! I wonder how many people in this country have those same misconceptions. I don't particularly like how the term black church was thrown around, even tho I do understand this concept is a reality to many people in our county. I think that Brother Baucham did a great job in answering the questions.

I'm glad that you e-mailed Todd and the WOTM staff regarding the "black church" questions.

Thanks again for the post sis!! I'm gonna have to check up on Voodie and listen to some of his stuff.

J Hoyt
10-18-2006, 11:18 AM
I wonder how many people in this country have those same misconceptions.
Probably a lot. What other sources of info beside the TV do people have?

KFB
10-18-2006, 11:22 AM
Why is this guy(the host) so sarcastic? I think bro showed his true colors with his comment on africa.

StreetSermonz
10-18-2006, 11:26 AM
Why is this guy(the host) so sarcastic? I think bro showed his true colors with his comment on africa.
yeah he is pretty sarcastic, but it's grown on me. Many radio personalities are the same way. Some things he said would have offended me if I didn't have an understanding of his ignorance on the issues at hand. Especially that last comment. The calls got kinda crazy, I'm glad the show ended.

jnorman888
10-18-2006, 11:29 AM
Hey sis,


What hour was it?

KFB
10-18-2006, 11:48 AM
Hey sis,


What hour was it?

2nd hour bro

oNeBlackWoman
10-18-2006, 11:57 AM
I have to post on this, because that segment was great!! It was good to see this topic being brought up given the majority audience on WOTM Radio.

I had never heard of Voddie Baucham, but he made some great points:

"We are emotional people.... if the gospel does not impact us emotionally, then it could be that we are actually being disengenous before God."


wow



"You cross the line into emotionalism when we become anti-intellectual, when the emotions themselves began to govern and begin to override what we are doing....trying to elicit certain emotional responses"



Would love to be able to hear this show.

jnorman888
10-18-2006, 12:21 PM
True he did make generalizations, but I know I do at times too. But you did well in e-mailing them your concerns.

Tony Stone
10-18-2006, 12:30 PM
He made some really good points (Voddie).

It is interesting to see Todd so disconnected from the black culture with reliance only on TV perceptions of it. That would kind of be like me shaping my view on every white person in California by flipping by 90210 a couple of times.

But, I believe Voddie, in defense of those Afro american brethren who stand for the truth, would not have put the black church on blast, at least not in that context. You have to understand- he's a smart man- he's talking to a white man who does not know much about anything black. The context is educating someone who has been influenced by TV perception of the black church. I guarentee you if Voddie were put in the context of a black radio station that holds the stereotypical "black church" mindset, that he would be far more harsh in his critique, in an effort to get fellow blacks to reform their thought.

THe fact remains that an staggering number of "black churches" follow a format that is suspect as it pertains to its observance on scripture in the form of church order and doctrine. This is from personal experience visiting a number of black churches in the US (unrelated by conventions and denominations). Just like in every state you go to, you can and will find blacks huddled up in front of a 711 wasting their time, the ones doing it wrong are often the ones who are the most vocal and seen. They do exist in large numbers. But even looking down to myself, I know for a fact that EVERYONE is not wasting their day in front of a 711 with a brown paper bag in their hand. However, I'm not ready to believe that the number of blacks who push a negative image (inside and outside the context of the church) is far less than those who are pushing the right image. But my outlook is not consistant w/ Todd's because his view is based on an outside perception. I think Todd's goofiness helped him get by this show w/o seeming like an insensitive "typical" (ha ha) "White Guy".

Good show

Devin
10-18-2006, 12:55 PM
what did he say about africa?

savedbygracealone
10-18-2006, 01:02 PM
interesting! i cant listen at work (darn!) but i'll listen when i get home! eve, what did you say, would you mind posting what you emailed?


But even looking down to myself, I know for a fact that EVERYONE is not wasting their day in front of a 711 with a brown paper bag in their hand.
yes huh... i saw u there! (lol j/k) :p :D

KFB
10-18-2006, 01:12 PM
what did he say about africa?
He made a sarcastic comment about the gospel is not sending a bag of grain to africa. He apologized immeadiatly afterwords for his sarcastic tone and his making light of that kind of aid work.:(

KFB
10-18-2006, 01:15 PM
He made some really good points (Voddie).

It is interesting to see Todd so disconnected from the black culture with reliance only on TV perceptions of it. That would kind of be like me shaping my view on every white person in California by flipping by 90210 a couple of times.

But, I believe Voddie, in defense of those Afro american brethren who stand for the truth, would not have put the black church on blast, at least not in that context. You have to understand- he's a smart man- he's talking to a white man who does not know much about anything black. The context is educating someone who has been influenced by TV perception of the black church. I guarentee you if Voddie were put in the context of a black radio station that holds the stereotypical "black church" mindset, that he would be far more harsh in his critique, in an effort to get fellow blacks to reform their thought.

THe fact remains that an staggering number of "black churches" follow a format that is suspect as it pertains to its observance on scripture in the form of church order and doctrine. This is from personal experience visiting a number of black churches in the US (unrelated by conventions and denominations). Just like in every state you go to, you can and will find blacks huddled up in front of a 711 wasting their time, the ones doing it wrong are often the ones who are the most vocal and seen. They do exist in large numbers. But even looking down to myself, I know for a fact that EVERYONE is not wasting their day in front of a 711 with a brown paper bag in their hand. However, I'm not ready to believe that the number of blacks who push a negative image (inside and outside the context of the church) is far less than those who are pushing the right image. But my outlook is not consistant w/ Todd's because his view is based on an outside perception. I think Todd's goofiness helped him get by this show w/o seeming like an insensitive "typical" (ha ha) "White Guy".

Good show
I agree with you I was saddened that this "learned" man was so ignorant that his only perception of the the "black" church was that of what he's seen on tv. I'm afraid to think of what his perception of what afro-americans are like since they seemed to be shaped by tv.:(

Devin
10-18-2006, 01:15 PM
well he should...he displayed pure ignorance......






ps.im referring to the africa comment...

savedbygracealone
10-18-2006, 01:34 PM
while i completely agree that it IS sad that a person's views about a particular "race" are shaped largely by tv (eve! ;)), the fact of the matter is, depending on what your upbringing was like (area, parents, etc), people can be secluded or only with only limited exposure to people who are different from themselves... this is why the whole "race" issue takes patience and effort from both sides...

on the one hand, it will take concerted effort for those who are secluded or ignorant to get out of their stereotyping and get to know actual PEOPLE (not from tv)...

on the other, it will take patience from peeps who are bombarded with ignorance all the time...

jnorman888
10-18-2006, 01:41 PM
He made some really good points (Voddie).

It is interesting to see Todd so disconnected from the black culture with reliance only on TV perceptions of it. That would kind of be like me shaping my view on every white person in California by flipping by 90210 a couple of times.

But, I believe Voddie, in defense of those Afro american brethren who stand for the truth, would not have put the black church on blast, at least not in that context. You have to understand- he's a smart man- he's talking to a white man who does not know much about anything black. The context is educating someone who has been influenced by TV perception of the black church. I guarentee you if Voddie were put in the context of a black radio station that holds the stereotypical "black church" mindset, that he would be far more harsh in his critique, in an effort to get fellow blacks to reform their thought.

THe fact remains that an staggering number of "black churches" follow a format that is suspect as it pertains to its observance on scripture in the form of church order and doctrine. This is from personal experience visiting a number of black churches in the US (unrelated by conventions and denominations). Just like in every state you go to, you can and will find blacks huddled up in front of a 711 wasting their time, the ones doing it wrong are often the ones who are the most vocal and seen. They do exist in large numbers. But even looking down to myself, I know for a fact that EVERYONE is not wasting their day in front of a 711 with a brown paper bag in their hand. However, I'm not ready to believe that the number of blacks who push a negative image (inside and outside the context of the church) is far less than those who are pushing the right image. But my outlook is not consistant w/ Todd's because his view is based on an outside perception. I think Todd's goofiness helped him get by this show w/o seeming like an insensitive "typical" (ha ha) "White Guy".

Good show


Tone,


Because of the "white flight" that happened in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's alot of Caucasian American's never really saw a real African American in person. Infact, they only know of us from T.V., the Movies, and books. And this is part of the reason why you will hear off comments from time to time by some Caucasian Americans. It's because they have been sheltered from black folk so in some ways it's a culture shock.

MrGardiner
10-18-2006, 01:45 PM
Voddie is one of my favorite preachers. He did a Marriage seminar on DVD and i've never heard anything that could top it. Biblically sound and inspiring.

A Must Check.

You can buy it here:
http://resources.northpoint.org/store/shop.do?cID=1&pID=978

You can watch it for free here:
http://www.buckheadchurch.org/messages

eve
10-18-2006, 01:55 PM
Let me say, y'all, that I think brother Todd is sincere and i admire his passion for biblical Christianity. He just suffers from what numerical majorities do in every country: the ability to be both successful and ignorant about numerical minorities. Since, for example, I belong to an ethnic group that's only 13% of the popluation of the US, I am surrounded by the culture and norms of the majority group. I can't go too many places without seeing them. And I can go quite a few places (Fremont, Wyoming; Bangor, Maine) without seeing anyone who looks like me. He, on the other hand, can do perfectly well in life knowing nothing about me.

I was a little spazzed that television (an entertainment medium) was his source of info on Black folk, though. Where else would he get his o=info about Blacks, you ask? Black Enterprise Magazine, Essence Magazine, the Congressional Black Caucus, and a wider array of television shows meant for more than entertainment only. If we want to deal with television as an example, why only go to "goofy" asthmatic preacher shows? What about hearing Tony Evans preach? What about watching Tony Brown's Journal or the Tavis Smiley show? Reruns of Cosby perhaps? What about one of several Black pastors featured on OnePlace.com?

But I really do like Todd's passion. In response to Jolene's request, the email I sent him is below. Who knows, maybe he'll respond to it on today's show.

___________________

Hello Todd!

Thank you for having Voddie Baucham on Way of the Master Radio. I'd like to address your questions.

First, please understand that the "Black Church" is way too diverse to characterize. It's just as outlandish to ask "Why does the Black Church ...?" as it is to ask, "Why does the White Church ...?" As foreign as it seems to you to ask a question about the "White Church" is as oversimplified any response to the nature of the "Black Church" can be. For example, the church I attended as a teenager is a 200-year-old "Black Church" in New York City that is highly middle class and as far as can be from those of the television preachers you alluded to. (By the way, I know you know that television isn't a good litmus test to assess anything Black, but I just want to use that as an example because the circus-clown-like television preachers were mentioned in your line of questioning to Voddie Baucham). By contrast, during my first year or so here in the Washington, DC area, I attended a "Black" "Holiness" church that was high on emotion and low on theology. Then, I started attending a "Black Church" that was largely young, very psychology-driven, and shunned outward displays of tongues and the like. Now, I attend a largely "Black Church" that is a Calvary Chapel. The teaching is line-upon-line and the worship through music is God-focused and not man-focused. Again, asking anything about the "Black Church" will often lead to answers that simply won't apply to thousands of other churches. Too broad a question.

Additionally, the historic "African American Church" that began back in the late 1700's with Richard Allen, Absalom Jones and the like ... was as far from the Black screeching preachers you see on television as Jonathan Edwards was from the screeching White preachers you see on television. It's normal for people in a numerical majority such as yourself to not naturally see how generalizations of others are just as improper as generalizations of themselves, but I think it's important to point that out sometimes. As a numerical minority, I would have to deal with you daily and know about your culture, whereas you could go to many places in the country without seeing me and you don't have to know my culture to have a grasp on your surroundings.

Finally, you asked an excellent question about why members of the "Black Church" often vote for liberal democrats who are pro-choice. First, I will say that's a generalization because neither myself nor my Black friends vote for liberal, pro-choice candidates. Nevertheless, to the Black Christians who vote for candidates who are pro-choice ... the fact that their candidate is pro-choice is besides the point. Now I can see your eyes bugging! But let me explain. There are a lot of issues out there that some Black Christians think they can apply biblical principles to, and that are biblically important. Many of those issues are ones the conservatives traditionally part ways with some Black Christians. For example, Conservative Candidate A is pro-life, anti-gay marriage, and pro tough sentencing. So far so good. Polls have shown that most Black voters are conservative on those issues, too. But then we find that Conservative Candidate A also believes in cutting aid to Africa (while increasing aid to countries 1,000 time smaller than the continent of Africa), cutting public school funding in favor of defense spending, decreasing funding to programs that help the poor and disenfranchised, decreasing state aid for DNA tests for criminals on death row (because of which many "criminals" were found to be not guilty), and is in favor of cutting funding to public first time homebuyer programs. The Black voter thinks, "what about Jesus' parable about how to treat the 'least of these'?" Though the majority of African Americans aren't poor, there is a significant percentage who are and leaving those individuals with waning help seems as unbiblical as voting for someone who they disagree with concerning the life issue. And the weird thing is that though they are, too, pro-life, they find that many conservative candidates are also not pro-life when it comes to the fate of felons awaiting the death sentence who haven't been DNA tested. The Black Christian (a generalization, again) has to vote against his conscious either way he chooses to vote.

Thanks, again, for the good work you do. And thanks for your willingness to read this through.

Grace & Peace,

Eva Nolen

StreetSermonz
10-18-2006, 02:07 PM
That was a great e-mail Eve! I hope that he responds, or at least has a chance to read it.

jnorman888
10-18-2006, 02:11 PM
Bravo!!!!


Good Job Eve!!! That was a great e-mail!

Follow God, Not Man
10-18-2006, 02:14 PM
nobody is perfect, bottom line, we all gonna say stupid stuff from time to time , the question is will we be humble enough to just admit we slip up.

savedbygracealone
10-18-2006, 02:31 PM
*thumbs up* on the email eve the zealot! :D

StreetSermonz
10-18-2006, 02:34 PM
I'm gonna write an e-mail too.. maybe tonight once I have some time to think it through, I have some points I'd like to make.

eve
10-18-2006, 03:08 PM
hey, fam:

whatever you do ...

please remember to listen to the show (http://www.wotmradio.com).

this show is actually quite inspiring normally, so peep it every one in a while (for those who are not yet on board with Way of the Master).

peace!

invisible man
10-19-2006, 01:15 AM
I heard this show. It was good. If you listen to WOTMR enough then you know how Todd is. His response about Africa doesn't surprise me. He tends to be very opinionated and what he thinks is what he thinks and he doesn't mind letting you know. This is probably do to his smarts because he is an intellectual type cat. Dude even makes me mad sometimes with what he says but I like the show because they don't back down from tough debates with nay sayers and they spread the gospel without shame. He is goofy though. Look at his picture. He used to be a comedian this probably explains his goofy, sarcastic side.

nubia7
10-19-2006, 01:15 PM
i pray he reads it.

Danielle
10-19-2006, 01:45 PM
wow, great post Eve.